There will never be a world without war and ideologies will always be involved.
Look at the World Wars, were we supposed to just sit back and let another country take over our own and then we just go “cool man lets all have some beers”. I don’t think so. Much of what you guys are saying here is insulting to many people through your naive views of the world, much of which I doubt you have even been out and experienced. While I understand it is an opinion you are sharing, try to tone it down and stop generalising things because it really does just make you look stupid.

Cheers

My point was more that they’ve been fighting for ages and still haven’t really come to a resolution. At least with North & South Korea, they’re at war, but they don’t DO that much against each other. They just sit there with their troops, waiting for the other person to do something, and as soon as they do, they get all bitchy about it (eg NK missile tests – did they seriously think people wouldn’t get annoyed at them for that?).

Far more productive for them all to just make love not war.

@Nelots: Was more knocking the general image/stereotype of the middle east. Massive deserts with guys in turbans with AK-47’s. Mainly the massive deserts though. I like my big Asian cities, or my big US theme parks, or my big Euro landmarks. The general image of the Middle East though is one of war (News), deserts (The Geography channel?) and terrorist training camps (NCIS) if you watch TV. With the exception of the major cities that don’t seem to be involved in war so much (Dubai, the rest of the UAE, maybe Egypt a little, though it’s fairly dodgy and all sandy apparently), they aren’t major tourist attractions, like the Western World cities – eg Sydney w/ Opera House, Harbour Bridge and whatever else is in Sydney. Egypt is just pyramids and sphinxes, and Dubai is just super-tall or super-weird buildings).

It is hard for the typical Westerner to see the attraction of travelling there for a holiday if they have no family there, due to the large amount of War/Violence in the area. Who is going to take their family with their little children to a country where bombs frequently (compared to everywhere else) explode, killing general members of the public?

they aren’t major tourist attractions, like the Western World cities – eg Sydney w/ Opera House, Harbour Bridge and whatever else is in Sydney. Egypt is just pyramids and sphinxes, and Dubai is just super-tall or super-weird buildings).

Since when haven’t the pyramids at Giza been a major tourist attraction? Pretty sure that there’s only one Sphinx, too. Which has a nose missing. CURSE YOU NAPOLEON.

they aren’t major tourist attractions, like the Western World cities – eg Sydney w/ Opera House, Harbour Bridge and whatever else is in Sydney. Egypt is just pyramids and sphinxes, and Dubai is just super-tall or super-weird buildings).

Since when haven’t the pyramids at Giza been a major tourist attraction? Pretty sure that there’s only one Sphinx, too. Which has a nose missing. CURSE YOU NAPOLEON.

I meant that Egypt and Dubai were the only places with well-known tourist attractions. And damn, only one? I figured the Egyptian’s would’ve realised how cool they are and built some more.

Well the Taj Mahal of course comes to mind, the Temple of Jerusalem, Shapur’s Palace, Masada, and whatever’s left at the Hanging Gardens of Babylon I’d say would be pretty popular too, and whatever other wonders of the world there are. I guess it’s just about knowing where x place is where.

Yep, only one Sphinx. xD
One of that sort of large size anyways, there maybe have been many smaller versions/statues of it.

There will never be a world without war and ideologies will always be involved.
Look at the World Wars, were we supposed to just sit back and let another country take over our own and then we just go “cool man lets all have some beers”. I don’t think so. Much of what you guys are saying here is insulting to many people through your naive views of the world, much of which I doubt you have even been out and experienced. While I understand it is an opinion you are sharing, try to tone it down and stop generalising things because it really does just make you look stupid.

Cheers

To be honest, us in the western world have a much better understanding of the situation than the average person in the middle east. Why? Because we’re not oppressed, and we have 101 different avenues to obtain information from all sides in the region, whether it be official or unofficial sources. And, we are educated. And, we have a birds-eye view of the situation.
And no, its not ‘stupid’ to say that they need to chillax over there. Being couch-critics of the middle east we can easily look back on the history and make proper judgement calls without being bias.

And, we can generalize. Because we’re smart. We are developing nanotech car windows which clean themselves where we live. Over there its time to quit the bollocks, give-up the blame game and start again. Their current approach isnt working obviously. But, its not just a case of just -telling- them to chillax. The implementation, eg how to go about it, is beyond me.

In other words I am not smart enough to come up with a solution to the problem, however I can at least summarize what the problem is.

Cake wins. :flamer:

Cake wins. :flamer:

Seconded.

Yes clearly saying they need to chillax is obviously a smart and educated response to the issue.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t but again it is naive to say things like that when there are many issues there that you probably do not know/care about. We may have avenues of knowledge but many of those are biased, as much as you would like to think otherwise.
What I do find funny is how your arguements actually stem from your opinion over biased views. Shall we review? You were saying they were stupid to shoot the bag and then somehow from this incident you go on to say how bad the area etc etc. Yet from this “birds eye view” of yours you should know that standard practice is to defuse or blow up articles that are left UNATTENDED. Again another point of view that you created is the fact that their ideologies do not count.
For someone who claims to be educated, saying that other people’s ideologies or religions are wrong and should be stopped is very simplistic and as I said, makes you look stupid. We could flip the argument and say that the USA should just turn to a dictatorship so that we can get along with countries such as Afghanistan. This is clearly a flawed view, as is the one where people should just stop what they believe in :P. Don’t get me wrong, I do not agree with the conflict over there, but it will never end and it just annoys me when simplistic people say things like “duh they should just stop” without giving real thought to what they are actually saying.
Cake certainty wins in his own little world where serious global issues seem not to apply.

Cheers

To be honest, us in the western world have a much better understanding of the situation than the average person in the middle east. Why? Because we’re not oppressed, and we have 101 different avenues to obtain information from all sides in the region, whether it be official or unofficial sources. And, we are educated. And, we have a birds-eye view of the situation.
And no, its not ‘stupid’ to say that they need to chillax over there. Being couch-critics of the middle east we can easily look back on the history and make proper judgement calls without being bias.

Your couch-critic views should stay in your lounge room as land issues with both political and religious significance will surely be way more complicated than your last major lounge room problem of where the hell did that TV remote go.
Being oppressed doesn’t necessarily mean the locals have no idea as in most cases information will be passed on verbally from generation to generation.
Your 101 different avenues to obtain information from both sides is flawed because guess where the sources of these information come from…… Yes thats right, the source of majority of the information, official or unofficial comes from the locals on the scene.
Judgment calls without bias… I doubt that since stories told by both sides are biased to their own cause so you’re more inclined to siding with the most convincing story.

And, we can generalize. Because we’re smart. We are developing nanotech car windows which clean themselves where we live. Over there its time to quit the bollocks, give-up the blame game and start again. Their current approach isnt working obviously. But, its not just a case of just -telling- them to chillax. The implementation, eg how to go about it, is beyond me.
In other words I am not smart enough to come up with a solution to the problem, however I can at least summarize what the problem is.
Cake wins. :flamer:

Generalizing is ok because we’re smart??? Ok then you surely shouldn’t be commenting on world events because everyone knows computer nerds have no idea about real world events and can only be a reliable source of information from the realms of World of Warcraft.

@The Admiral – People actually do holiday in the Middle-East, I for one did. Contrary to popular views the Middle-East is actually pretty safe to travel around provided you move around the safe zones. Just for your information, not everyone that takes holidays will visit countries just to visit tourist attractions. To me I find tourist attractions overrated as they’re a mecca for overpriced crap with over crowded foreigners whose main aim is to brag about their own country and thats on top of the hordes of old people.
War and violence?? it’s no different in the Western World. In America there are ghetto slums, red light districts are also hot spots for crime. Even Sydney is no different, I mean try strolling through Mount Druitt late at night dressed as a foreign tourist.

Krikey.
Ok you two first of all are muddling up everyone elses posts with mine. And secondly – yes, yes we are smart. We are very smart and we have a huge wealth of knowledge on the entire region. We dont have some ‘bias’ or ‘incomplete view’ of whats going on there at all. Thats complete crap.

And yes, it is a smart thing to say they need to chillax. I’m sick to death of hearing ‘oh but but there really is a reason for the violence. we just dont appreciate XYZ’.
Well here’s the bottom line. Its old. Its an old conflict. There has been freaking way long enough time for everyone to learn all about what is going on over there.

And we are smart, and yes we can generalize because have had the time to. I’m sick of people trying to enforce some kind of ‘open mindedness’ because of a perceived lack of appreciation for something. Seriously – I already know all about this crap. Its pathetic. After all the years of studying, hearing about it in the news, all the history… yes, its just pathetic.
Its human beings fighting FIRST. And XYZ value statement second.

Look you cant win. Cake says its a pathetic conflict, and it is. We have had the time/resources to understand all about the conflict over there. Thats cake’s statement. Don’t argue with me on this one. Go fucken argue with someone involved with the conflict. I’m too lazy to.

Well I guess we can agree to disagree here. You say it is a pathetic conflict, I think it is more that your view of what is happening is flawed.

Cheers

How about, calling someones perception flawed based on what their opinion of the events, is flawed. You have assumed that my opinion of known information directly represents what information I have about the situation. Thats wrong.

I have access to the same information as many others. Others can say different things about the same information. I call it pathetic. Thats a judgment call the whole cake has made, based on all of his world experience and ethos, combined with the information which others also have access to.
Cake calls it pathetic. You may not. But that by no way is any indication that cake has a less-than-informed opinion, just because you disprove. Now its a retarded situation over there, and we are 10 fold superior socially. We have every right to broadcast our opinion and thats exactly what the whole cake does. Cake is smart, well informed and at liberty to say what he thinks. Over in the middle east all they are smart. But thats not enough.

Krikey.
Ok you two first of all are muddling up everyone elses posts with mine. And secondly – yes, yes we are smart. We are very smart and we have a huge wealth of knowledge on the entire region. We dont have some ‘bias’ or ‘incomplete view’ of whats going on there at all. Thats complete crap.
And yes, it is a smart thing to say they need to chillax. I’m sick to death of hearing ‘oh but but there really is a reason for the violence. we just dont appreciate XYZ’.
Well here’s the bottom line. Its old. Its an old conflict. There has been freaking way long enough time for everyone to learn all about what is going on over there.

Being smart/intelligent doesn’t mean you’ll know/understand the entire story behind the conflict.
Having access to a “huge wealth of knowledge on the entire region,” what does that really mean……..
– biased stories from various victims of either side,
– media stories that are also biased since majority will focus on innocent victims to further their journalistic career, and/or
– government influenced media releases as a propaganda ploy to justify their cause.
“oh but but there really is a reason for the violence,” of course there is otherwise there wouldn’t be any conflict. So unless you’re personally involved in the it you will never fully contemplate the full scope of the issues.

And we are smart, and yes we can generalize because have had the time to. I’m sick of people trying to enforce some kind of ‘open mindedness’ because of a perceived lack of appreciation for something. Seriously – I already know all about this crap. Its pathetic. After all the years of studying, hearing about it in the news, all the history… yes, its just pathetic.
Its human beings fighting FIRST. And XYZ value statement second.

You studied about their conflict so that makes you an expert on the matter? These people are fighting for land that holds religious significance, the issues are far more complex than what you may think it is.
If I was ever in such a predicament I’ll most likely fight as well.
In the end, third party audiences can’t really say what’s right or wrong, what’s right or wrong is determined by the individuals involved in the matter and their way of justifying their actions to their cause.

I really don’t see what you’re bringing to the table in this arguement. You started off questioning why I called it a pathetic conflict. Now all you’re doing is nitpicking at faults in things I tell you. You’re attempting to build some kind of image of the cake having a flakey impression of whats going on over there. Well yes theres loads of crap information out there. But its also rather easy to spot the crap. This conflict has been going on for a long time – its hard to hide the truth about it.

We have a vantage point beyond what those individuals involved in the conflict have. Yes they have a perspective, and we have a perspective. We are able to learn their perspectives. And we have. Getting bias information from all sides, we are able to construct vast amounts of history. This is called journalism.

They however are unable to learn our perspective because they are involved and/or inhibited by XYZ element such as ideology. Can you get a suicide bomber for 20 minutes to sit down & listen to you? Look we have a superior vantage-point to 99% of the people involved in the middle east conflict.

Its an on going game of tit for tat. Sure with rather important things at steak. At least initially. But that doesn’t mean its any more justified. I’ve suffered retribution violence first hand. I wont go into the story but I suffered a disfigured face and brain damage because I was mistaken for someone else, and the attacker was ‘getting back’ at someone. I know a hell of a lot about how people work in conflict on large and small scale. And I call it pathetic. When doctors are fixing your face you’ll have an opinion too.

@The Admiral – People actually do holiday in the Middle-East, I for one did. Contrary to popular views the Middle-East is actually pretty safe to travel around provided you move around the safe zones. Just for your information, not everyone that takes holidays will visit countries just to visit tourist attractions. To me I find tourist attractions overrated as they’re a mecca for overpriced crap with over crowded foreigners whose main aim is to brag about their own country and thats on top of the hordes of old people.
War and violence?? it’s no different in the Western World. In America there are ghetto slums, red light districts are also hot spots for crime. Even Sydney is no different, I mean try strolling through Mount Druitt late at night dressed as a foreign tourist.

Is it that sandy over there? I was quite surprised when my Mum’s friend was telling me about how nice Perth is. In my head, it was like: middle of nowhere + desert + close to Indonesia/Africa thus lots of illegal immigrants, making it sound not very appealling at all. Apparently, it is fairly nice though. I think the cost of living there is still quite high though, due to how far goods need to be transported to get there – the bad part of middle of nowhere.

Dude. Sif not go to places just to go on roller coasters!