I once argued the point for hours and I came to this conclusion. Being a non believer of any “after life” when you die there is no chance of you going to heaven or atleast you don’t have hope to move on to a “better place”. However if you do believe that there is a place for you after then your up 1+ and there is a possibliity taht you may. Its better to have the possibility then not to have anything at all.

At the end of the day whatever you are, its just best to try your hardest and live life to its fullest and try to make a difference. No point being a drone in society and following the rest of the croud, it takes you nowhere but behind the other people standing in line.

If your in a religion to worship a book or a god then what is your purpose for that, if you in a religion to uphold values and beliefs then I think that is what you should look towards. I’ve been told a million times that there is no point going to church every day if your a total prick to everyone aruond you and have no respect for anyone, its like washing a car and pouring mud over it.

Your sposed to learn a lesson or a value and use those skills/values/lessons in your own personal life.

I just don’t quite get imo, where the respect comes from or how your a man if your a terrorist bomber.. I was told by a kid that it shows your man hood. But I don’t see how killing yourself and others show your man hood. I admit I have never looked deep enough into any other religion then christianity but I cannot see the logic in it.

In summary if you live your life to your best and try your hardest and can help those around you and try to make a difference taht is waht life is about it. It really isn’t intelligence vs religion

Cheers, BR

exactly uve gotta look at all walks of human life to understand that one religion cant be right and another be wrong when a starving kid in africa has never even pharking head of jesus … will he still get forgiven …..
when i was 9 PHARKING 9 i asked wats the answer to life my old man told me “whats the pharking question”

for ur slow people out there questioning life will get u no where so thinking about an AFTERLIFE is just dumb and a waste of thought so fucking open ur eyes and realise that this is it.

and i started this thread merly to poke fun at religious beliefs of ne kind not for a debate becos it wont be a debate it will be a one sided thrashing with intelligence prevailing over all

Belief is a human disease and is highly infectious. Flekz 2009

There is no life without death.

Wow there is just so much to tear apart here I just don’t know where to start.
I’ll leave the first couple of posts, I think it was established about the connection between faith and religion. So lets start here:

necesary only to protect the weak and simple minded that cannot understand there own potential and power that they hold on the world around them and to ATTEMPT TO TRICK THE AVERAGE into been controlled by FEAR of punishment for going against such a god.
If god is so just and fair and all this bullshit ….. how would he deal with extremist muslems who 100% BELIEVE WAT THEY ARE DOING IS RIGHT BY THIER GOD they DONT KNOW NE DIFFERENT so how could god judge them for killing innocent people when wat they did in there own minds was completly right and true but then again wouldnt he have to judge them becos they BROKE the 10 COMMANDMENTS and NEVER asked for forgivness????

LOGIC GOTTA LOVE IT

Your post here kind of delves into quite a few issues that I am sure you are unaware of. It depends on which religion you talk about to what consequences would happen to that “extreme muslim”, if it were Christianity, the general consensus is that he will go to hell but in saying that none of us are here to judge and only God knows where he will go, if it were Muslim, he would go to heaven and get 50 virgins or something. The thing is here, you actually have no idea about the Muslim religion and whether or not this is true. There are extremists in any faith/organisation/political party anywhere that take one snippet of something and take this as truth. Clearly these are flawed values as if you accept one part of something, it seems very hard to reject the rest. Furthermore, you also must have zero idea about the Christian faith as the ten commandments do not apply to this day and age, they were under what is called the old covenant (basically applied to those back in those times). People from Jesus’ time onwards are under a new covenant that is a little different. That being said, the commandments stand, but under the old covenant if you broke one you could not go to heaven without sacrifices (or something etc can’t remember 100%) whereas now we can repent and be forgiven due to Jesus’ sacrifice.
So that was going off the point a little, but since you are just throwing stuff out there I thought I would correct you. Moving on now. The Muslim dude you were talking about being right in his own mind, well that doesn’t always make it right either. If you think it is OK to steal, does that make it right? If you have to steal to feed your family because they are about to die, does that make it right? These are all questions that pertain to many different beliefs and ideologies such as Utilitarianism, Altruism and Hedonism etc. Now I won’t bore you about what they are because it is actually quite a bit of reading and I take it you aren’t the kind of guy who likes to read much. Basically what I am saying here is that no matter what you believe in, you are believing in something. Faith is always there behind whatever it is you believe albeit science, religion, politics etc and your arguments are not specifically against religion being flawed, it is about a certain view of something being flawed. When it comes down to your view vs someone else’s view, there is no winner and only long debates. You cannot prove that my view is wrong and I cannot prove your view is wrong, we can only prove or disprove points on issues with each.
Moving on a little to your further post about blind = flawed, everyone has blind faith in something. Whatever you cannot prove 100% is faith in a form. Several years ago they thought the world was flat, does that mean the world was stupid and flawed because they believed in one thing that turned out later to be false? Same again with light where many thought it was a particle and others a wave when we found out it is actually both (and who knows what we may find it to be in the future). So I reiterate again, your argument is just a spiral of misunderstanding of the topic you are talking about. Read up on a few of these points I brought up in this epic wall of text and you may learn some interesting things 🙂

Cheers

Religion, drugs, alcholo etc… are all crutches

You believe or have faith that it will make you feel better, be better etc…

Unfortunatly the only thing that can make you feel better or be better is yourself!

Just like Control is an illusion, no-one has real control of anything, even down to your remote control you might think you can control the tv with it … well you can till the batteries go flat then you lose control so the original control is an illusion

You may think God or Buhda etc… will help save you or find a way for you to achieve whatever your goal is … illusion, the only way any of it will happen is if you get up and do it yourself but dont think you are incontrol!

Insaying all of that, if your religion or “crutch” helps you get throught your life, then by all means go ahead!

(I also have my “crutch” I believe in a universal force that governs all our actions and you reap what you sow, for those not getting what im on about im talking about Karma, What goes around comes around, be-careful what you sow…)

I am a Jedi master and I have learned the ways of the force.

I am a Jedi master and I have learned the ways of the force.

Whats your mediclorian count???

It’s not as simple as ‘it’s ok to believe what you want to believe in’ Even if you think it makes your life better. Why?

Religion is the only concept in the entire world which allows people to talk, walk and enjoy life with an imaginary friend without mental assessment.

Religion is dangerous. One of the greatest examples of this is 9/11. What about other things? Take for example dumb Christians expending their moral energy opposing abortion rather than genocide. Why are they more concerned about human embryos rather than about one of the most lifesaving discoveries of all time (stem cell research). Why can Christians preach against condom use in Sub Saharan Africa while millions die of AIDS there each year?

Blind Faith in fairy tales. Virgin birth? No dinosaurs? Adam + Eve? Flood? Talking snakes? God? All rubbish. Absolute rubbish. You believe in rubbish. Many religious people prioritize huge amounts of time on rubbish. Zero evidence for any of your fairy tales and imaginary friends.

Evolution is fact. All life on earth has evolved from simpler life forms over billions of years this is a fact and no longer admits intelligent discussion. The world wouldn’t be this way unless evolution was TRUE. It’s highly accepted by all accredited scientists that evolution is FACT, even some bishops of the catholic church believe it is FACT. INTELLIGENT DESIGN is simply nothing more than political + religious advocacy masquerading science. It again, is rubbish. If ID were true your designer is actually retarded and he causes death himself through his ‘perfect’ design. Not believing in evolution is DENYING THE FACTS. DENYING EVIDENCE. You’re an idiot if you do.

Religious Gods DO NOT EXIST: They don’t. Prove me wrong? I’m not saying a god doesn’t exist( I say this because it’s impossible to prove, although it is highly improbably when we look at evolution). I’m saying the Christian God doesn’t exist or Allah, or Thor, or Isis or Zeus. ETC ETC ETC.

The main reason religion is wrong is my point of it being dangerous. Christianity alone can be indirectly accounted for MANY DEATHS, even now. It’s sad to watch people put forth intense point of views on religion and them being totally, utterly incorrect.

Trigger you are silly if you can’t see the difference between faith in EVIDENCE and faith in imaginary friends, fairy tales, make believe planes called ‘hell and heaven’, miracles (through holy spirit) and a 6000 year old earth( LOL BUT IT CAN BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENT?!?!!) (lol)

@ Religious people – Your willful ignorance in inexcusable and it disgusts me. (ok I stole that part, but I back it 100%)

I reckon a God exists. And that he/she/it (assuming that the God is aware) cares little for the fate of any of us.

Reasoning:
1. Big Bang etc. It’s a terrible explanation. Isn’t it that two particles smashed into each other to make the massive explosion that created everything? I admit, that there is the proof that it can happen. However, we have to ask, where did the two initial particles come from? Science has a reason, and it doesn’t work. Thus, I believe that as the rules state that something must be created out of something, theoretically, only a God would be able to break those rules, and thus for the Big Bang Theory to hold, the existence of a God must also be true, to have created the initial particles.

2. We don’t even know how big the universe it is (it’s pretty massive compared to us though), and thus I truly think that the God must have something better to do with it than look after and watch over us.
Presuming the God is omniscient, the God would’ve foreseen that the whole universe would be created. There must have been something about it that the God liked, for the God to decide to have it created – unless it is one of those ‘fated to happen’ things, which is even more illogical than a God.

Also, @Blusky on “Evolution is fact”. Technically, evolution goes against the physics principle (or is it a law? I forget senior physics already) that all things in the universe go from a state of greater complexity to lesser complexity. Evolution directly contradicts that, turning less complex organisms into more complex organisms. This is one of the reasons why many physicists do believe in a God or religion of some kind or another. My high school physics teacher was a catholic.

You say religion is dangerous? Hardly. Religion is the means to an end (war). If it isn’t religion, it would be skin tone, intelligence, phsyical size, geographical location, customs, or philosophies (which religion kind of is). It is naive to think that the aggressiveness and greed of humans only comes about because of religion. The crusades were necessary for the hierarchy and economy of medieval Europe. Good way to kill of some of your own guys and bring back some riches. The muslim terrorists are just those with childish minds who are upset at the Western World’s superior wealth and technological advances. Religion is just used as a cover for those things half the time.

@Fraggle: I agree. For those who get only benefit from religion – like so many of the elderly church-goers today, who use it as a place to socialise or an excuse to leave their house and see people, it gives them only good things.

@BR: Blowing people up gets you into heaven where you get the 20 or 21 virgin girls or something if you believe that. I think the idea is that once you’re in heaven, you can actually get some, and thus become a man. (Where ‘you’ refers to the terrorists, not BR). BR is smoking hot, he could get some any time of day if he wanted.

Newton, father of Physics, was a Catholic.

And with what BR said, I don’t want to beleive in an after life becasue if i go to hell, then i dont want to be in pain for ever. Or if i go to heaven, then i’d be stuck with billions of boring squares who thing that shooting games are “un-godly”. Plus it would get incredibly boring after the first 10 years.

1. Big Bang etc. It’s a terrible explanation

Lol, I can think of a worse explanation. It’s called God. But wait, that isnt really an explanation, what does God explain? Nothing.

Also, @Blusky on “Evolution is fact”. Technically, evolution goes against the physics principle (or is it a law? I forget senior physics already)

The 2nd law of thermodynamics. Creationists abuse this and skew it to appear as if it contradicts evolution. IN ACTUAL FACT evidence supports that evolution conforms to this law and evolution itself is an expression of it.

Evolution is a fact. Beyond any reasonable doubt. Evolution is fact.

You say religion is dangerous? Hardly

I’ve already argued why it is dangerous (and there are far, far more examples). IT IS dangerous. I guess it’s up to your opinion. At the root of your points you made though, religion is still a major player in such things.

I do however, enjoy your point of view ( if you believe in a god and not specifically the christian god).

:Edited to fix quotes:

Religion is not dangerous? Has anyone heard of Reverend Jim Jones? Anyways, this fellow, a Christian, founder of the Peoples Temple, some psuedo-religion, basically convinced 909 (276 of them children) people to kill themselves, aka, “Revolutionary suicide.” The reason given by Jones to commit suicide was consistent with his previously stated conspiracy theories of intelligence organizations allegedly conspiring against the Temple, that men would “parachute in here on us,” “shoot some of our innocent babies” and “they’ll torture our children, they’ll torture some of our people here, they’ll torture our seniors.” Parroting Jones’ prior statements that hostile forces would convert captured children to fascism, one temple member states “the ones that they take captured, they’re gonna just let them grow up and be dummies.” – How ironic. Heh.

Not to mention Holy wars (IN THE HOLY WAARRRRSSSS. Sorry. Got carried away. Friggin’ Megadeth.), ideological indoctrination, a reason to advocate racism (KKK, Christian Identity Movement) and homophobia, people thinking they can handle deadly snakes or walk on water and etc.

2. We don’t even know how big the universe it is (it’s pretty massive compared to us though)

The universe is however big you want it to be. :3

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes Religion.”

1. Big Bang etc. It’s a terrible explanation

Lol, I can think of a worse explanation. It’s called God. But wait, that isnt really an explanation, what does God explain? Nothing.

I believe the Big Bang happened, and in Evolution, but I think God STARTED the Big Bang, or at least, created the original particles involved. I cannot see any other explanation for how the initial particles came to be otherwise.

Also, @Blusky on “Evolution is fact”. Technically, evolution goes against the physics principle (or is it a law? I forget senior physics already)

The 2nd law of thermodynamics. Creationists abuse this and skew it to appear as if it contradicts evolution. IN ACTUAL FACT evidence supports that evolution conforms to this law and evolution itself is an expression of it.

Evolution is a fact. Beyond any reasonable doubt. Evolution is fact.

I agree in Evolution. I just realised how meaningless my previous thingy was as I believe in it. I haven’t heard of evolution supporting it before. Sounds interesting though. Link perhaps?

You say religion is dangerous? Hardly

I’ve already argued why it is dangerous (and there are far, far more examples). IT IS dangerous. I guess it’s up to your opinion. At the root of your points you made though, religion is still a major player in such things.

Yes. I think the ‘religion starts wars’ argument though underestimates the desire we have for war. The benefits of rounding up young males and uniting the country (in medieval times, not so much now with anti-war protests) were enough to start that desire. While I agree that there would be less wars if it weren’t for religion, I disagree as to the number of fewer wars. I truly think that in many of the religious wars, with out religion, another reason would have been developed to ‘justify’ the war.

I do however, enjoy your point of view ( if you believe in a god and not specifically the christian god).

-nods-
I believe in the science (Big Bang Theory, Evolution), but I truly cannot see how a God CANNOT exist. Religions based upon gods seem a little silly though, yet as Fraggle said, they offer a level of comfort of mind to many people, and the stories of druggies/alchies/gamblers/baddies etc reforming and ‘seeing God’, while stupid, show that religion does bring about a level of good in the world too. The missions to Africa/wherever too. I think that as time progresses though, religion is losing its significance in society (% population that is church going is continually decreasing), and that given another 100 years, provided there are no major catastrophes (global warming flooding/anything else that affects the entire world, not just a little earthquake), we(Western World) will be much closer being a religion-free populace.

I believe the Big Bang happened, and in Evolution, but I think God STARTED the Big Bang, or at least, created the original particles involved. I cannot see any other explanation for how the initial particles came to be otherwise.

A biblical God? A simulation from an alien supercomputer? Thor? Wotan? Which God?

After answering that question. Who created the creator? Why? How? Why did he do the ‘big bang’?

No human can speak coherently about how the universe came to be. Any intellectual will tell you that they don’t know why the universe exists. What does evidence point to though? Nothing in the bible and definitely not a super natural creator (God).

I agree in Evolution. I just realised how meaningless my previous thingy was as I believe in it. I haven’t heard of evolution supporting it before. Sounds interesting though. Link perhaps?

Google it. It’s quite hard to understand though and it’s very technical. From what i’ve researched i’ve came to those two conclusions though.

I
I believe in the science (Big Bang Theory, Evolution), but I truly cannot see how a God CANNOT exist. Religions based upon gods seem a little silly though, yet as Fraggle said, they offer a level of comfort of mind to many people, and the stories of druggies/alchies/gamblers/baddies etc reforming and ‘seeing God’, while stupid, show that religion does bring about a level of good in the world too. The missions to Africa/wherever too. I think that as time progresses though, religion is losing its significance in society (% population that is church going is continually decreasing), and that given another 100 years, provided there are no major catastrophes (global warming flooding/anything else that affects the entire world, not just a little earthquake), we(Western World) will be much closer being a religion-free populace.

Doctors alleviate human suffering in poor poverty stricken countries don’t they? Yes, they do. Do Christian missionaries? Yes, they do. BUT they come to the task encumbered by a dangerous and divisive mythology. Are Christian missionaries really that good and moral? They spread inaccurate information about contraception and sexually transmitted infection, they also withhold ACCURATE information. While of course they do accomplish many positive goals but are the accomplishments worth the ignorance and death they spread? No.

Furthermore, in El Salvador abortion is illegal under any circumstances. No exception (rape/incest). Why? Christianity. If a woman enters hospital with a perforated uterus(possible back alley abortion) she will be shackled to her bed and await a forensic team to examine her womb.

50% of all human conceptions end in spontaneous abortion. Does this mean that the christian god contradicts himself with the rate of abortions? If God exists, does this make him the greatest abortionist of all time?

i believe that everything is as it should be, kind of buddist without the RULES becos we (intelligent people) realise rules are meant to be broken tested bent shredded down and recreated. basically everything and everyone is GOD there is no such thing as good and evil becos what one man considers evil another considers holy which one of those men is more important that his view is more right that the other mans. the world is just a GREY ZONE life simply exists always has always will its infinite im sorry your weak minded brains cant seem to gather the concept.

and trigger ur a dead set moron of course it meant the world was pharking stupid ….. and miss informed read up ^ about the RULES and how they meant to be broken torn down started again … OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER for ever and ever
and trigger where were u b4 u came to earth ???? i didn’t ask to be born so its pretty pharking unLOGICAL AND UNFAIR that “GOD” brings me to earth to worship him and follow his rules becos isn’t god sposed to be all knowing and all powerful and for that matter a fair god so me been born is more disproof of gods existence and for ur information trigger im a very avid reader and was brought up by my mother who was Christian so ive read the bible…. but obviously unlike u i questioned its COMPLETE BULLSHEEET when i was 9 years old i was smart enuf by that time to understand that RELIGION didn’t make a lick of sence ur basically saying also that if ur Muslim that ull get ur 50 virgins just becos u believe it …. …..
well guess wat im gunna start believing that u trigger will burn in hell for the rest of ETERNITY in front of me for my pleasure does that mean that it will happen ???? no of course pharking not u pharking downy deadshit think before u pharking speak open ur eyes and realise this is it.

and fraggle control is an illusion AHHAHAHAHAHA u basically think we are robots id pharking hate to be in ur brain how pathitik and weak is that u basically have ridded ur self of all responsiblity becos U HAVE NO CONTROL pharking hella weak