@blusky, Religion is just as dangerous as any other large group of people. America invades other countries and kills lots of people due to their belief that bringing in Democracy is the right thing to do, despite the fact that there were many grey area reasons for doing so (aka resources in such countries). Christianity isn’t dangerous in any other way that these groups are, it is those that are extremists that are dangerous. As I said before, people take something out of context and roll with it, which is fundamentally flawed. A virgin birth yes we believe in,but no dinosaurs? I don’t know many people that would argue that and if they do, well it isn’t really anything to do with Christianity and hence it doesn’t really matter in that context. You also seem to go on many things that you have either heard or taken in a very literal sense with again, no context. Anything someone says to you that isn’t taken in context is obviously going to sound strange or stupid. The 6000 year old Earth scenario to just take one of your digs is something you have attempted to disprove with facts that aren’t even proven as fact. There are other scientists that think the world is young and others that believe the Earth is old, either way to me it isn’t really a deciding factor for me to hold belief due to a “his word against hers” kinda thing. You are believing in some rule that somehow loops a physics principle and state this as a fact that you are right. You are skewing someone’s research to your argument and stating it as fact, which is again wrong. I can go on and quote something from the Bible and some other scientists that debate what you say, does that mean what you are saying is rubbish? Clearly you can see now how what I said before about it being a circular debate that produces no winners. I’m not here to convert anyone, I mean what are the chances of that on a game right 😛 What I am saying is that you are trying to deny faiths and all this crap simply because you do not like Christianity (you say a God may exist but not a Christian God, that makes total sense), which is close minded and well stupid when you think about how this debate will continue to go.
You are silly for only seeing one side, if you actually provide the evidence it would be nice to see what it is others debate, coming from an engineering background I like to read and see other points of view to make up my own mind, not what someone just tells me 🙂
@Your snide remark, I would like it if you could keep passion out of this debate and keep it on a nice level since anyone can throw a “you are ignorant for not looking at X fact” etc.

You again seem to contradict yourself by saying that no one knows how the universe is made, yet it couldn’t be by a God. I mean seriously lol that is just going from making a nice unbiased statement to saying “I think this because X” in less than 10 seconds. Anyway, the rest of your arguments that go onto about abortion and what not, well I guess if that is your view then that is your view, I can’t say I agree nor where you got those figures (50% lol come on :P) but I do not have answers for those questions that would satisfy you I would think.

@flekz, logic has nothing to do with faith. Sure they intertwine, but they don’t really prove or disprove each other. I have also questioned the Bible in my life, but I have found my way back time and time again. I wasn’t saying that because someone believes in something that it will happen, I was just stating that in your situation what was HIS belief and HIS reason for doing so, not that it was RIGHT in our sight. You need to stop swearing in a debate that is trying to stay on a formal level of facts/points rather than passion. Those debates just end in stubborn people going “LA LA LA I’M NOT LISTENING, I’M RIGHT AND THAT’S IT”. As for your predicament of why he would put us on this Earth and it being unfair, well I guess that depends on your outlook. Most people I guess are happy to choose life over death and well going by your logic, if you didn’t want to be here you could easily erase his decision to put you here in the first place. Other than that I also do not have an answer to that question as I cannot comprehend everything God does or will do 🙂

Cheers

clearly i enjoy been here becos i dont follow rules but if i was put here clearly to live like a robot blindly following rules i wouldnt want to be here and that would be unfair and “god” would know this becos he “knows all” so that would make him an unfair god and therefore himself flawed and therefore not GOD

and fraggle control is an illusion AHHAHAHAHAHA u basically think we are robots id pharking hate to be in ur brain how pathitik and weak is that u basically have ridded ur self of all responsiblity becos U HAVE NO CONTROL pharking hella weak

If thats your interpritaion of what i said then your allowed to interprete it that way, but that is not what im saying or thinking or believing at all, you are wayyy off the mark there, so sorry, so sad, you are the weekest link, goodbye!!

funny that u would say that ranga pride aye and if u wish to be interpreted differently u might wanna try expressing urself in a clear way becos thats really the only way to interpret wat u have written there u say u have no control and control is an illusion….. so if u believe control is a illusion then u dont think u have necontrol…. therefore u cant be held responsible for nething becos its not ur fault ur not in control. and karma hilarious karma karma only exists if u create it in ur mind …. for karma to exist there has to be good and bad and quite frankly good and bad dont its all grey. but i also went thru a period where i thort karma might exist … mind u i was Tripping BALLS on acid but even if it did “exist” its would be based souly on wat YOU as a human considered good and bad aka ur conscience which wold also mean that YOU would have CONTROL over it

again my intelligence smashes ur theory’s

I pose a few questions for Blusky in this post, just to see what the opposing views are.
So going back to the creation topic, you say that it is so unfathomable that a God could create the universe yes? Yet you are a man that believes solely in Science and has faith that this Science is right. Lets have a look at what science says in just a laymans look at things.
The start of the universe is these particles that are just magically there yet what was before that? How did those particles get there in the first place? Now lets look statistically at some things too, these magical particles created the entire universe through some crazy ‘bang’ where they all crashed at the EXACT right time/place that created heaps of stars and planets. Out of all of these planets, only one contains life (so far I guess you could argue). So how is it that such astronomical odds happened to create the universe in its entirety and yet only one planet was made EXACTLY right (not too close, not too far from the sun etc). Now on this planet that spawned life, we all started out as single cell organisms right? So those then evolved into more complex beings until we eventually became what we are today. Now with evolution, how does that work? Why do animals etc evolve in the first place? From what I have studied on it, it is mutations that are carried out over many many years that eventually get you differences in order to adapt or things like that to the environment. So generally speaking you have what is natural selection that takes place and it wipes out the older species that hasn’t mutated since it didn’t adapt. So if this is true, why are there still monkeys or whatever it is we evolved from? If we adapted this way, why are we the ONLY species on the entire planet that is as smart as we are? How come we are the only ones that made it this far? Why is there nothing else that is close to us and why in the entire human lifespan of when we became ‘smart’ has there been no other evolution of any kind? Sure we wouldn’t see anything major, but we should still start seeing the minor changes in the next generation of our species. Now don’t get me wrong, I know evolution happens in nature, we have seen it. But humans are not nature, we are above that in so many ways. Every creature you find in nature have traits and characteristics that make them completely suited to their environment and all have specific purposes. How is it that we hit these astronomical odds to evolve to become where we are? It seems almost like you have to have a higher amount of faith in science to believe it than it would take to believe that someone made us.
Both sides are pretty far fetched when you really think about what is behind it all. It is easy to say we were created or we were evolved and to believe either one, yet to say that one is more stupid than another is quite narrow minded I would say.

Cheers

A virgin birth yes we believe in

HAHAHAHAHA. Why didn’t I just stop reading here.

The 6000 year old Earth scenario to just take one of your digs is something you have attempted to disprove with facts that aren’t even proven as fact.

LOL ok Trigger…..the world is actually 6000 years old and virgin birth is possible….ok. We definitely don’t have the technology to date the Earth…

You are believing in some rule that somehow loops a physics principle and state this as a fact that you are right. You are skewing someone’s research to your argument and stating it as fact, which is again wrong

The 2nd law of thermodynamics? My statement was wrong? Look it up. I can just as easily turn your statement against yourself.

I can go on and quote something from the Bible

Hahahaha, quote something from the bible to disprove anything i’ve said. Even though I have no idea how much weight a quote from a fairy tale would hold.

What I am saying is that you are trying to deny faiths and all this crap simply because you do not like Christianity (you say a God may exist but not a Christian God, that makes total sense)

It does make sense.

“you are ignorant for not looking at X fact”

You’re WILLFUL ignorance for believing in a virgin birth, god, talking snakes and the like are laughable. I would not protest to you making ‘snide’ comments about evolution, facts, statistics and rational thought. Well I, and others might call you an idiot, but you bring it on yourself.

can’t say I agree nor where you got those figures (50% lol come on

It’s fact. Again, look it up and enjoy believing in the greatest abortionist of all time for a god!

edit: ill reply to your most recent post when I have time (tonight, probably – merry xmas)

If you are stating facts, provide them. Why would I need to go chase down what could be an imaginary statement made by you 😛
I have to ask before I go on any further, do you actually study at all? Have you ever studied science to any sort of actual standard? If not then I need not go any further myself, you clearly lack any coherent manner of how to approach a scientific fact of any kind. I can see now that instead of actually arguing your point you have reduced to LOL ZOMG sif believe that. So I guess there isn’t any real need to debate since you will never back up what you say with any real facts.
You have technology to date the Earth, yes, but to what is it based on? How does it measure how old something is? How can they go back 4.75 billion years in time and say that is how it was then and that whatever they date something in the past hundred years is the same as how to date something years ago? I for one don’t know, I have never looked into it because it isn’t a big deal for me. But see what I did there? I didn’t just assume it was right because I have heard a little on the subject, I am open to it when I actually hear what goes in behind it. I am not saying that the world is 6000 years old, again there is no point trying to tell you just how wrong you are at trying to take something like that literally from the bible, as you have no concept of context or any real desire to hear another point of view.
So while it was fun debating with you in the start, I guess there isn’t really much more to say, you can LOL ZOMG FAIRIES if you like, it is your view and you are free to it 🙂
I won’t reduce an argument to snide remarks even though I could, what is the point? Is it just to annoy the other person to take them away from the fact you have no sources to back up what you claim? As I said, I am keeping this factual with no passion involved and if you don’t want to do so, well then, it’s been fun, but I guess it’s game over.

Cheers

Problem are humans and their actions. The only way you will know if there is anything beyond death is if you die and see it for yourself. All will be explained thus why you need to have faith so you may live in the afterlife. If you knew that there was an afterlife then your actions would be void and would not serve the purpose they were meant for.

so basically ur saying that all our actions are already void becos there is an afterlife ….. great work death very insightfull u almost got it … yes all our actions are already void they mean nothing …. but not becos there is an afterlife becos this is it once ur dead your personal universe dies everything uve done no longer matters becos ull never know becos ur dead

i think therefore i am. therefore if ur not thinking ur not existing so if u don’t have a brain which u only have whilst ur alive here in the universe ur not thinking therefore not existing.

so basically ur saying that all our actions are already void becos there is an afterlife ….. great work death very insightfull u almost got it … yes all our actions are already void they mean nothing …. but not becos there is an afterlife becos this is it once ur dead your personal universe dies everything uve done no longer matters becos ull never know becos ur dead

i think therefore i am. therefore if ur not thinking ur not existing so if u don’t have a brain which u only have whilst ur alive here in the universe ur not thinking therefore not existing.

Do you know IF there is an afterlife…no…so read my post carefully before you assume the wrong thing. I never said there is or there isnt..no-one knows untill they die BUT if they knew then it would be a differnt ball game all together…in terms of humans actions and how they go about it.

Humans are imortal AND imperfect therefore why they make miskates and why bad/evil things happen.

All actions are void and worthless, for in the end, they have no real meaning.

Be your own god.

I Think, Therefore I’m an Atheist

its not faith, its blind faith. All i’m going to say, but i do love these augments
religion is not needed in this day and age it WAS ok to start moral grounding but now its not necessary. But it doesn’t really bother me as long as people dont go all extremist on ya. 😎

Welp, religion is quite a comical topic. Its funny because people get so wound up in it, but don’t do much research.
An absolute enormous amount of religion is skewed or misinterpreted throughout history. Its quite right to say that its part of how religion works: It changes with time. Tradition pfft, thats what they all say.

Things we know today: Christmas, Easter, Sunday worshop, etc, are almost all taken from non-christian sources. Yet they are often quoted as being Christian.
You can tell that its all a scam because history shows that our current traditions and beliefs go back to earlier ceremonies which were non-christian.

For example Christmas is a direct ripoff of saturnalia. Which goes back even further relating to the position of the sun going below the horizon in the right place in the skyline this time of year to match up with a few funky stars, which follows along some story I forgot. But its to do with the 3 wise men Anyway:

Saturnalia became one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked by tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters ostensibly switched places, with humorous results.
Saturnalia was introduced around 217 BC to raise citizen morale after a crushing military defeat at the hands of the Carthaginians.[1] Originally celebrated for a day, on December 17, its popularity saw it grow until it became a week long extravaganza, ending on the 23rd.

If you still believe in Christmas, you’ll get a kick in the balls when you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia#Saturnalia.27s_relation_to_Christmas

You’ll find christians worshop ‘the son’. This is a mistranslation from ‘the sun’. If you look at the early church symbols it shows the Cross, but overlayed with the zodiac. You can tell its the zodiac because the son/sun is in the middle of it some times:

Early christian symbol, with zodiac around the center (celtic wheel cross) And Jesus on the cross:

The sun in the middle of the cross.
Oops I mean the son in the middle of the zodiac. Surrounded by the 12 signs of the zodiac/apostles. We’re currently in the age of Aquarius according to some people. I dont know much about it but roughly this time we’re meant to be switching to or have switched to the new age of Aquarius. Hence why all these zodiac & tarrot morons are called ‘new age’:

The 12 apostles again, in human form:

And dont even get cake started on all the astrological alignments & stuff that coincide with these “christian” holidays. Like easter and the like.

Seriously they’re the same thing. Google for yourself. Or even ask your local church minister why Easter is marked on the pagan calendar, and everything happens to align with the solstices.
Cake can go ON… and ON… and ON….All it takes is a bit of thinking and you can see for yourself that it all goes back to stories made up around what ancient humans saw in the sky. Back when us as humans really worshiped the sun because it gave us light, warmth, food, life etc., and we measured time by watching the stars. We could tell winter/summer etc was coming by the positions of stars and made up stories to explain them. Like Ra and Horus in Egypt.

Seriously dudes half the bible is just ripped off stories which were in turn ripped off and it goes on and on. Its all bollocks. Very clever, but the institutionalization of this stuff by Christianity really made life hell for humanity.
The short answer is that religious people of any form are indeed idiots. They believe in a puppet show, when the puppeteers are already exposed. Its nearly 2010, grow the fkuc up.
The church burned people for saying the world wasn’t flat
The church burns people for being pagan
The church burns people for being gay
The church discourages birth control
The church discourages abortions for rape-victims
Do you want to embrace this?? And with a history built on flimsy stories? Vote for the whole cake instead. I will be your leader. Boobs, drugs, heavy metal, alcohol….you name it.

Christmas does have pagan roots, there is no denying that. What is great though, is that on Christmas, there are millions of people that celebrate the birth of Jesus. How many remember the pagan beginnings? There are similarities in your story with Christianity and the sun god thing, but that doesn’t prove Christianity doesn’t exist because there are similar symbols.
Your point is still moot though cake, as your topic against one religion was using another 😛

Cheers