People only follow RULES. You water it down to guideline, admin discretion, SK OK until it’s excessive, etc, then you are left with …

admins dont follow the rule book by the letter. usually an admin has a level of tolerance before they decide to enforce a rule, so what you’ve said is true.

People do follow clan/scrim team alliances, and with SK allowed that is more likely to be scrim team alliances. … and everyone being annoyed by the fights and posturing.

again true.

what it boils down to is given a choice between admin discretion, and automation / rulebook, players would rather not have another person decide their fate.

For your info fgt I wasn’t complaining about that map, the map in question is The Port or whatever it’s called. Let me see Blusky (yet again), Keith (now isn’t he a OZ member) just to name a few

Trigger Happy pmed me not to kill you unless you come out of the tunnel, which I then started to do – unless of course you started firing at me first so you were fair game.

if your asking me it seem to be the few selected players that are PROTECTED SPECIES, and it’s starting to get FKEN lame.

PROTECTED SPECIES?? LOL. I get warned all the time, stop your whinging.

BUT SERIOUSLY MAN I HAD TO TAKE HORUS, OVERMARS AND HICKS OUT ON A DATE TO THE PANCAKE PARLOR TO GET PROTECTED SPECIE STATUS.

What I’m complaining about is the Stacked teams yet nothing gets done about it now or ever, so what the fk is going to make it any different in the future??? I KNOW SWEET FK ALL

!balance is done regularly. The teams will always be lopsided depending on who’s playing – it’s just how ET is.

You whinge so much, all you do is cry “Sk, BS HACKER, wTF???” etc etc…simmer down big boy

simmer down big boy

ROFLCOPTER ready for takeoff 😆

My 2c on these issues…

1) NO ATB!…No player wants to be swapped automaticaly during thegame. This has failed badly on Internode and PTGN before and the general consensus was not to use it. Better way to shuffle is for admins to notice that the game is totally biased then either do a vote while globaly saying the sides are stacked OR shuffle at the start of the next map AND possibly lock teams.

2) Regarding SK…. If the team gets spawnkilled then its their fault basically. I agree that teams get stacked with noobs on one side and pros on the other. It is afterall a public server with a wide range of players ability. SK is a tactic and either way its a valuable lessosn to learn and take note of. Excessive SK does kill the game and therefore if it happens team should be mixed. It is every players responsiblity to enusre that gameplay is fair to some degree for eveyone ASPECIALLY ON A PUBLIC SERVER. I can handle being SK by pro-stacked side and I know how to go about it but majority of players dont bother working together or dont know what to do since they are newbie.

3) Another problem with SK rule… People will enfore this rule but once you get to your first choke point then thats it….defending team will kill off offending team there….then its just like getting SK except that you dont have the invulnerability. Excessive SK is what kills the game with/without teams stacked…the way to go about it is to shuffle teams when you see that teams are completely biased. General weapons should be allowed in the spawn area while SK but airstrike/arty/mortar should not since this DOES get excessive and is what really screws up the game.

What i noticed is that players who hate SK are those who dont know the game well enough (i.e. noobs). I can tell you this…i was in your shoes and I learned alot of the tricks-of-the-trade from getting SK; Teamwork/timing/knowing your way around and where the enemy can be are very valuable assets in FPS games, even when it got excessive. They way i see it is that OZ has enforced this rule to accomondate the noobs and has basically pushed aside the idea that noobs should get better even when SK to a tolerable degree; basically OZ is a server for noobs and ohters are pushed aside…thats what it looks like.

SK is not the only rule that is enfored…several other detrimetal rules have also been apllied which are still causing QQ amongs many players…perhaps those who QQ are not noobs which then yet again it would seem that OZ is accomondating for the lesser skilled players only.

perhaps this was not my 2c but $2 lol.

Your argument is flawed because you mention that it is every players responsibility to make the game good.
That never happens and probably never will. You have a handful of players that would swap to the losing side to help out while the rest are all too happy to keep the other team in their spawn area for 20 mins.
ATB is the best, it makes players rage because they get switched when they are half the time dominating the spawn point. Makes for good lols when that happens.
Maybe we are a noob server catering to noobs, the pros just have to deal with the fact that we are a noobalicious server with emphasis put more on fun between players rather than the frags.
We do listen to concerns though and we do try and make compromises where we can, like right now in this topic where sk is being considered.
People hate being shuffled throughout a map and if our shuffle works on XP it will do zilch anyways. ATB is based off k/d and is the command that would be used to ensure things are going evenly throughout the game since it only moves a player or two.

SK is not the only rule that is enfored…several other detrimetal rules have also been apllied which are still causing QQ amongs many players

Anything specific that comes to mind on that one?
A lot of the QQ has come from panzer players from what I have seen. Trying to get /kill removed, trying to get more panzers per team even though 1 is really quite enough etc….

Cheers

@Triggs. Using ATB is like the mini-me version of autoshuffle-in-the-middle-of-the-map-by-an-admin. You lose your kills/deaths because you switched sides and just throws the game off. I’ve seen ATB swap players as often as few minutes apart PLUS if that happens then you really need to shuffle when the offending team is SR (Spawn-raped) by the entire other team…not because there are two meds waiting outside for some fraggs. This kinda stuff (low level SK) teaches noobs and makes them better…you start removing tactical methods from the game and making it noob-friendly then that is all you will ever get and people will get bored and wont ‘level up’. The point of FPS games is to learn and get better, applying such harsh rules regarding SK is detrimental to a person playing FPS in getting better…not just aiming wise but knowing your way around and timing your attacks for example (or even getting out of bad situations).

There are three types of SK, in pub servers, in my eyes:
1) SK by pros who can work their way around the field and suprise attack few players who spawn (or anyone who is lucky enough to get near the enemies spawn)
2) Nasty clan based team work that happens on pubs and causes noobs to QQ.
3) Entire defending team is SK (i.e team with the objective is forced back to their spawn by the defeding team).

What I see on OZ is this;
1) 60% of the time —> No real issue with minor SK by individuals, they camp get fraggs and get killed (60% smg, 20% explosive, 20% long range/large area weapons)
2) 10% of the time —> Issue if the clan works well and other side is full of noobs, should shuffle if this becomes an issue (80% smg, 10% explosive, 10% long range/large area weapons)
3) 30% of the time —> Big issue since the game is biased, shuffle (mixture of every kind of weapon)

SK rules on OZ are based on all three factors there consider this:
– type 1) does not deter the game but makes some noob QQ for a while
– type 2) rarely happens
– type 3) is what causes issues for entire team and makes the gameplay crap

If we remove type 1) from the equation and use shuffle for type 2) and 3) when it gets exessive then there is no need for such harsh SK rules since factors such as invulnerability and few players deployed per spawn also help out those who have spawned. I have seen last night Allies get SK quite badly and no shuffle/warning was used BUT allies eventually pushed through. I dont encourage using SK as the only method to play ET by but both sides learn something from it and its inevitable in many cases…which falls back on lack of team work or stacked/biased sides…which can alwyas be shuffled.

i love the essay’s posted when it comes to SK.

not that i actually read them 😀

Here’s the problem, as I see it, with my experiences on the OZ server.

People only follow RULES. You water it down to guideline, admin discretion, SK OK until it’s excessive, etc, then you are left with two things. SK, and people saying they won’t stop because it’s a rule. “Show me the rule that says that I can’t SK.” They don’t stop, you warn. “Dewarn me, blah blah” Forum post “Admin abuse, I was warned for SK when it’s fine, ask Fred & Barney they were on and say it wasn’t excessive SK”.

People do follow clan/scrim team alliances, and with SK allowed that is more likely to be scrim team alliances. hZd for example, not because I have a problem with hZd, it’s just a good example. 4 or 5 hZd on, they end up on the same team, backing each other up SKing. As blu said, you put Joker/blu/Ulti/Ramen together on a team backing each other up, a lesser opposition is screwed. Then an OZ mod/admin says “OK, stop the SK, it’s excessive”. Any action they make is then attacked by 4 people, and they back each other up against the mod/admin. A kick/mute/warn is challenged, global spammed against, etc. So now you have SK and everyone being annoyed by the fights and posturing.

That makes the server better how?
Isn’t this “need” already serviced by GA?
Do we really need just another GA server to add to the list?

Heck yes. All the pros that want to SK get to on ETPro serves like GA. The ETPub servers are open to all the public and are noob friendly.

It’s terrible when you’re an admin and there are 3+ guys of another clan on your server breaking your rules because if you try to deal with one they start causing problems. No respect for the rules of another clan.

Most of the guys on the server don’t sk. Only time I get to is when I mortar, and as soon as I kill someone I’m warned immediately, yet the SMG gets to kill several before he gets told not to. If the reason the SMG can do it is because they can go SMG and get him back, then surely a mortar can do it because the other team can just go mortar and get him back too.

Sk is sk. What weapons it is hardly matters, because a noob dies just as easily from any of them.

Typically fair firefights help make noobs better in the beginning, not being camped all map.

If you care about Kills/deaths more than fun then go play on a pro server. GA is open. OZ is the way it is because the donators and admins choose for it to be that way. You want to change it, become one of those people.

Heck yes. All the pros that want to SK get to on ETPro serves like GA. The ETPub servers are open to all the public and are noob friendly.

GA is open to the public and is noob friendly…

Most of the guys on the server don’t sk. Only time I get to is when I mortar, and as soon as I kill someone I’m warned immediately, yet the SMG gets to kill several before he gets told not to. If the reason the SMG can do it is because they can go SMG and get him back, then surely a mortar can do it because the other team can just go mortar and get him back too.

Sk is sk. What weapons it is hardly matters, because a noob dies just as easily from any of them.

There’s a huge difference between mortar & smg spawnkilling, don’t be silly. Most of the guys that don’t spawn kill can’t do it or can’t make it to the opposition’s spawn. For instance if you allowed spawnkilling of all forms, gold rush/oasis would be borderline unplayable with the amount of damage a mortar/fop can put out on the spawn areas.

Typically fair firefights help make noobs better in the beginning, not being camped all map.

Fresh out of spawn or not the noob has no chance against a good player. Imagine a noob having to use his brain and spawn at a different spawn or actually plan how to kill the SKers instead of just rushing out….

If you care about Kills/deaths more than fun then go play on a pro server. GA is open. OZ is the way it is because the donators and admins choose for it to be that way. You want to change it, become one of those people.

Fun = Killing people. Your argument is flawed.

Fun = Killing people. Your argument is flawed.

for some.

for me, fun on ET is trick jumping, prentending to be a Tank and walk around with the panzar, pretending to skateboard, having ET intercourse with Cake, goombahing, needle wars, Saw ET edition, and the like

(trigger happy, Happy and Cake will get the references)

😀 😀

Saw ET edition

<3

Cheers

I’d like to give you a perspective some of you may not have considered.

In regard to SK on servers,the ppl who say let the admin on at the time use their own discretion,the problem with this line of thinking is if there is no admin on at the time,clan meds (you know,the ones with the coloured names!)go to war on the spawn & I can guarantee when you are trying to achieve an objective to complete a map (ie. not playing a med yourself) being bottlenecked in your spawn by 2-5 meds working in unison against a seriously underskilled opposition cannot be resolved without the use of ATB based on K/D ratio that makes team adjustments more than just a couple of times per map.

Your biggest problem in that regard,is you alienate & discourage low lvl (ie.low xp) & unskilled players & ppl who just don’t know either the objectives or the whole map in general,who get jacked off & leave the server,either temporarily thereby lowering No’s on the server or leaving permanantly with a negative view about ever playing again on a clan server.

Then you get attitudes from ppl saying things like “getting SK’d makes you a better player” ,no it makes you pissed off & resentful.
Dueling experience & having more skilled players actually explain what to do in the case of new maps for example or how to better use a character class makes you a better player.

There are a few legitimate cases where I can see SK being acceptable
1. A covert ops in disguise in the spawn using a knife only (high element of risk & requires genuine skill ,ie not an infinate supply of health packs & revives).
2. AFK players I deem to be a genuine target as unbalanced teams can seriously impact the overall outcome of any map.
3. Snipers or mortars shooting from inside the spawn are certainly legitimate targets.
4. Field ops resupplying mortars or targeting arty from the safety of a spawn point are fair game.
5. Transitional spawns ie.capture the forward spawn,flag etc.
6. Passing through a fixed spawn either to reach / bring back or escort someone carrying a map objective is fair enough,but intentionally stopping & waiting for them to spawn for the sake of easy kills should be an automatic warning,the criteria should be passing through,not camping.
7. Oasis being the best example I can think of here,the loss of a transitional spawn changing to a fixed spawn (dyno-ing the wall) ie.a gun battle raging for 1 or 2 mins after the fall of the spawn till all the original defenders are dead,then you should be required to back off to an acceptable distance.

Things that could/should be implemented to reduce SK’s
1. As on Silent Clan Servers, meds cannot heal themselves (I can hear you all flaming me over that one!),not so appealing when you have to play with similar limitations as the other classes! (it won’t stop co-ordinated camping by 2 or more meds but it will reduce bottlenecks on maps).
2. Halve the No. of HP’s that can be revived in a fixed opposition spawn or do not allow revive’s at all if you are in a fixed opposition spawn.(that should stop meds rushing into spawn’s & slaughtering noobs).
3. Ban snipers / panzers / mg’s being allowed to shoot into fixed spawns.

I should make this as clear as possible,I personally have no problem with mortars / panzers /arty / airstrikes or mines in front of spawns as long as there is some distance between where your aim is & the spawn exits.
If there is no room to evade,circumnavigate or no alternate route out of spawn to allow access to the rest of the map to defend or complete the map then I would classify that the same as entering the opposition spawn.

I play on a clan server to play against ppl who are better than me so I’ll learn something & improve my skills,if I wanted to own ppl with less skill than me for the sake of good stats I would choose an easy server or take up SK’ing , it’s not that I can’t or even that I couldn’t learn how to , it is far more importantly “I choose not to”!

SK’ing is the same as shooting fish in a barrel , it does not show a lack of skill , it shows a lack of character.

6. Passing through a fixed spawn either to reach / bring back or escort someone carrying a map objective is fair enough,but intentionally stopping & waiting for them to spawn for the sake of easy kills should be an automatic warning,the criteria should be passing through,not camping

IMO you should be able to spawn camp for objective.

E.g. camping axis spawn when allies have dyno down (oasis).
camping axis spawn when allies have got gold and going to truck (various maps are like that).
etc.

(even though most of the time the axis are on the receiving end of it all)

Ok lets just take a step back and look at this from a more global perspective. Why does SK happen…basically because one side has been pushed back to the spawn with lack of team work or few have managed to push through and take place at the enemy spawn waiting for 1 to few enemies who spawn.

– The serious/mega SK happens when the entire side cannot get out of spawn; this basically means that sides are biased and should be shuffled if this continues on.
– The not so serious/micro SK happens when 1 or few players manage to push through to the enemy spawn and fragg of few unsuspecting players, ususaly of lower class, with this they dont last long and by majority the gameplay is still level.

I don’t take joy from SK excessively but I do it at times because thats where i meet the enemy if not at choke points or the main battle field. You can either wait for the enemy at the choke point or you can wait for them near their spawn. Either way you are defending but from a different position. People QQ because they get out of spawn and die preety much instantly….well how about using your head a bit next time you spawn…her are few examples:

– Don’t run off like a headless chicken
– Try and stick around your team mates
– Move cautiously if SK before and check corners or get to know pausable positions of enemies
– Switch spawn
-Take a different path
– Wait bit longer to move out of spawn
– Allow your team mate to flush out the enemy then attack and rez him if med
– Know your surroundings
– Chuck nade for distraction

There are several things to learn from getting SK and how to avoid it or push the enemy back. IF the sides are totally biased and one side gets SK gallore then obiviously noobs have no idea what to do, lack of team work, other side is too good (even if the side getting SK has good players) or a combination of these things. There is alwyas a way out of a SK situation but mostly it needs TEAM WORK…something on a pub server you dont get much because noobs dont know what to do or other things they are not aware off….all of these things people can learn and get better at…EVEN from getting SK upon…but noobs will QQ because its not fair and etc etc etc….you want to get better then stop QQ and learn from this.

My personal experience on SK is this:

I’ve been on teams that were getting SK time after time after time..I knew we lacked team work and I always tried to muster something up..either with numbers or solo. I’ve dies countless times getting SK and sure it was annoying but i learned alot about how to navigate around the map, know whwere enemies are.could be, where to position myself to help the team. Why do you think clan players when they come on OZ server for example are good at SK….they do it with Team work.

In the end there is nothing wrong with people getting SK…even if the entire side is getting owned by it…simple solution (if entire side QQ) is to shuffle. 3 to 6 seconds invulnerability is sufficient enough for few players (who are getting SK0 to move out and take out enemies IF they can work together to some degree.

its understandable that pub servers have a wide range of player ability and for the lesser skilled such hasrh tactics discourage play but if you can encourage players to learn from these thinngs then it will only make them better. I don’t like it when the game is off balance but i dont QQ straight away…try and find a solution before you give up. I also understand that players might not get better with time (i.e the peaked) but simple tasks like working together anyone can do and people learn maps with time. I know why such harsh SK rules are applied but it only discourages better players coming on and “teaching” noobs tactics of diferent kind. SK, to me, is just a sitaution and tactic emplyed by the opposing side…just like leaning, artying the filed, throwing nades around the corner or any other method you use to WIN.

All i want to say is be reasonable because SK has ALWAYS been done on any server but if you discourage this to a harsh degree it throws the game off (i.e how it is meant to be freely played) and it is one tactics that noobs can learn alot from.

P.S. Best server ive been SK on was on BBA (32v32) and we were getting owned in a little cave where we spawed….30 minutes of hell and yet all that was done was !shuffle.

Like I said earlier – players agree to be forcibly placed on whichever team admins see fit (by whatever method – shuffle, balance, putteam) at the time and don’t protest, change back, rage quit, global spam, abuse, etc for the period. I’ve yet to see many say that they’d be willing to do that to get SK rules changed.

That said, there’s also not really that much reason to remove the rule. In-game, it works pretty well and serves it’s purpose. The server is busy, people seem to enjoy themselves for the most part, maps flow well (the right maps), the good players get their frags, the noobs have their fun. Seems pretty well balanced to me, FWIW.