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New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliament

the whole cake

Well-Known Member
Okay cake has a serious case of butt-hurt and nowhere to rant.

Cake does not like this new copyright bill because it was put through and nobody knew jack about it. And the govt showed unimaginable quantities of derp, fail and pwned when talking about it before signing it into law. The copyright situation is out of hand on a global scale and anyone with half a brain can see that its just out dated prats suing would-be customers because there's no non-bullshit and cheap method for getting telly shows.

So the whole cake marched into parliament. Okay I didn't. But my cakey data did. The whole cake emailed all the MPs who voted for the silly bill. Here is cake's email and the two responses received so far from Labour and ACT:
the whole cake said:
I am writing to register my objection to the to The Copyright (infringing file sharing) Amendment Bill. :flamer:

The use of the Christchurch Earthquake tragedy to forward a political agenda is disgraceful. :evil: Its horrifying to think that our government would act this way, and shows to not only Kiwis but the international community an image of our government being corrupt and unjust. Videos of New Zealand MPs talking about the internet have become viral jokes.

The use of urgency to bypass the standard political process for this bill is a blatant abuse of the urgency process. What is urgent about this move? :(

The requirement for the bill to have gone through standard process was well evident. The complete lack of any understanding of the technological implications of this bill was described in The National Business Review article: "Internet file sharing law passes after loopy debate", as "surreal levels of technical ignorance". I point to Jonathan Young's attempted comparisons of the Internet to the fictional SkyNet, and Katrina Shanks complete admission of "I don't know" as obvious examples that this bill and the issues around it were not clear. It was certainly not ready to be passed into law.

In regards to the law itself, it violates Presumption of Innocence: requiring no burden of proof on behalf of the accuser before they can file a notice. Nobody in our country has to prove innocence. We prove guilt. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

In the real world, it is technically infeasible to refute an accusation under this law for TWO reasons:

* It is almost impossible to prove that you have not downloaded something on a computer. As anything can be deleted with the click of a button, the lack of the copyright material on your computer would not provide evidence that you had not downloaded it. I would challenge you to find any argument for proof of innocence in this, which cannot be countered with the claim that it has been subsequently deleted.

* It is entirely possible for you to appear to have downloaded files, without having done so at all. I direct your attention to http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/ for technical details. You could be identified as having downloaded copyright material without having downloaded it at all, but for which you will still be held responsible. Good luck proving you didn't download nude pictures of Santa Clause last week. :banana:

Finally, the select committee response to the 92A clause stated that there was overwhelming public opposition to such a bill. How can such a bill be passed in the name of New Zealand public when it appears there is "overwhelming opposition"? Especially since it was skipped past the subsequent select committee process so that public opinion could not be registered on the potential changes (!!) :rnade:

I propose in the face of such a travesty of action regarding this bill, the only non-disgraceful action you can take would be to call for its immediate repeal. Or tender your resignation. You are supposed to be representing myself and other New Zealanders. I appreciate this is uncharted territory for the world's legal system. But there are plenty of experts in the field who can give you the executive summary for technical things you don't understand. This is important for our future and we care for our freedoms and the freedoms of others. This is why we pay attention to what you do.

Yours sincerely

the whole cake
The responses are interesting, showing that you can object to the copyright holder's fart, putting the burden of proof onto the copyright holder person. And all they can do is send notices. I think? Hrm lets read:

Labour MP Clare Curran said:
Thank you for your letter. I am responding to you as Labour’s spokesperson for communications and IT on behalf of the Labour caucus.

You raise a number of important points in your letter which reflect your genuine concerns about the process of legislation passing through parliament and concerns about the Copyright Law itself.

Firstly I should make it clear that Labour supported the Copyright Law because it had been significantly amended, and it did go through an extensive community consultation phase at the select committee.

While the remaining stages of the Copyright Bill were passed under urgency, it was referred to the Commerce Committee; we heard extensive submissions (237 submissions including 31 supplementary submissions); we talked to the Minister; we compromised; and we referred back a better bill than the one that was introduced.

Although it would have been better to pass the Bill through its remaining stages over several days instead of via an urgency motion we do not believe this was a constitutional outrage.

Submitters on the Copyright Bill were largely divided on a number of key issues in the Bill. Labour worked very hard to send a bill back to the House that addressed many of them.

We did not get everything we wanted. And the Bill still retains flaws.

But being in Opposition isn’t always about opposing. Sometimes you can make an impact on laws. There are times when negotiating an outcome that improves a law is better than taking a high moral stand and ending up with something that you, and many in the community, fundamentally can’t live with. On this occasion that’s what Labour’s done.

There’s been an intense reaction to having a termination provision in the law. The government’s bottom line was to have termination in the Bill. Ours was to not support it.

(CAKEY EDIT: So its National's idea (the current in power party) but not Labour's. Glad we have that cleared up.)

The compromise position was to leave it in but require the Minister to put what’s called an Order In Council into effect to switch it on. Account suspension remains in the bill and could theoretically be used in the future, but any Minister who implements termination will have to wear the consequences. It won’t be a Labour Minister.

The onus is now on the creative industries to prove there is a case to terminate access and that the notice system is not working. Rather than oppose it outright, we preferred to compromise to ensure New Zealanders are not denied access to the internet.

Labour acknowledges your concerns about Section 122MA of the Copyright Act: when an account holder receives an infringement notice, the burden is placed on them to prove that they did not in fact infringe a copyright. Some submitters raised concerns about this at select committee and we sought further talks with the government.

The government agreed to amend the clause and ensure that once a notice was received and where the Copyright Tribunal process was triggered that all the account holder had to do was to respond and challenge the notice. This would trigger a reversal of the onus onto the rights holder to prove that an infringement had occurred.

What we’ve ended up with is better. It’s not perfect. But it’s better than many other jurisdictions.

In conclusion, your concerns are important and Labour retains concerns about this legislation. Labour believes that all New Zealanders should be able to access the internet.

Disconnection is a disproportionate remedy for illegal file sharing. We needed a law. But we didn’t need a bad law.

Thank you for contacting us

Clare Curran
So its better than a terrible law? Thats like saying 'well its better than legalizing slavery of food products'. Thats no justification for any law.

Here is a response from the ACT party, which largely reads the same:
ACT MP Hilary Calvert said:
On behalf of Hilary Calvert MP:
Thank you for your email regarding the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill.

First of all, this Bill went through a full Select Committee hearing after its introduction and first reading, so although the latter stages were included in the Urgency motion, it made very little difference to the process used to progress this Bill towards becoming law.
(CAKEY EDIT: What is so hard about doing laws normally? Why does it have to be urgent? Is there less work or something?)

It has been a long-standing ACT principle to vote for any Bill that we consider to be a step towards individual freedom and responsibility and less government. Necessarily this means that we often vote for legislation – such as this Bill - that is far from perfect.

The Act is an improvement on the old law because it makes the punishment for illegal file sharing less severe. This is desirable because of the high risk that persons other than those actually engaged in illegal file sharing will be punished.

However, despite the above improvement, my colleagues and I still have major concerns about the law. In particular, the risk that innocent internet users will be punished remains far too great. We are also concerned that those who do in fact engage in illegal file-sharing will be able to avoid the punishments set out in the Act by simply switching internet service providers. We hope that in time we will have an opportunity to support legislation which addresses these issues.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Yours sincerely

Hilary Calvert MP
So there u go. People who actually commit the crimes can avoid punishment, and the risk to innocent people is 'too great'. Why can't they just say 'no' to this law? The public certainly does - and so does this food product.

:-_-
 

afkr22

New Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

tl;dr Something about cakes.

I'm quite fond of cake.
 

noobItUp

Super Moderator
Staff member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

Hai cake, can you give us some background on what the issue is? Govt using ChCh earthquakes to push through a dodgey copyright bill?
 

the whole cake

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

tldr: hai.
u downloaded my copyright movie. u downloaded my copyright movie. u downloaded my copyright movie.

3 strikes = ur not allowed on the internet anymore bai.

Like. Wtf? U can get your internet (which could include lots of things not used for downloading movies) disconnected just cos someone using an IP address someone haphazardly linked to you?

Its just a shitty 3-strikes law put in place so copyright holding people can sue the pants off you because you downloaded a movie. It starts with this, and then moves onto 'you didnt pay us 20 cents for moving a song from your iphone to your TV'. Its a silly law & needs to be squished.

Theres like protests all over NZ cos of it. U should see the videos of the MPs trying to explain how the internet works. Its cringe-worthy. I dare anyone to sit through the whole thing. The video is on this page (stuff is our main news website):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/4887073/Copyright-law-Net-parodists-target-Nat-MPs

10 internets for anyone who can sit through the whole video.
 

nelots

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

I find the best way to fend stupid politicians is by bribing them.
Whip out MS Paint and draw them a dragonfly!
Heres one I prepared earlier :banana:

 

Synonym

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

nelots said:
I find the best way to fend stupid politicians is by bribing them.
Whip out MS Paint and draw them a dragonfly!
Heres one I prepared earlier :banana:

I've been missing your MS Paint pictures Nelots.

Also on topic, that was a very well researched and worded argument Cake.
 

the whole cake

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

thanksies.

I'm not 100% cake sure what to say back to them though.
 

lKITl

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

Firstly totaly surprised by your serious post :banana:

Secondly yes the wholething is stupid. As i have download property that i shouldn't have, My arguement will be untill you can find me a police officer or judge that hasn't tape a TV Show or their fav song off the radio, and until then piss off!
 

nelots

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

the whole cake said:
I'm not 100% cake sure what to say back to them though.
Why bother replying to such retards? They've basically passed a bill without much thought nor voter opinions so why waste your time especially when it'll just be bounced back with generic formatted replies that neither answers your questions or provide any form of logic.

As for what you should do, create a wifi, download files off the wifi on a secondary computer if you have one and then contact your ISP regards faulty traffic meter readings.
This will create a log with your ISP that your wifi is being hacked/leeched so if you inevitably receive a notice of termination letter just point them that tards are hacking your wifi, stealing your internets and this will cause doubt and throw out any copyright infringement claims or at least make it harder for them to pin the charges on you.

P.S - disregard Kit's comment "My arguement will be untill you can find me a police officer or judge that hasn't tape a TV Show or their fav song off the radio, and until then piss off!"
because if thats your defense in court then you'll be found guilty 100% of the time along with a contempt charge because judges be haters when you offend them in court.
 

lKITl

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

That's right 100% i am guilty along with EVERYONE else.
 

micky

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

Sunncaeks said:
MySky is illegal?!@?#!@# o noez!
Actually technically not because you are paying for it.
You are paying for Mysky right?
 

catcher2

New Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

this is almost laughable

NZ broadband is by most standards pretty pathetic anyway, we get overcharged considerably for usage where in the US and most places you get unlimited by default. This is gonna be a huge blow to ISPs around the board, as usage will go down CONSIDERABLY, meaning people will either switch to lower usage plans or just stop paying for extra usage. Also, what's the point of all of this "fibre to the door" high speed broadband shit? Super-speed so old ladies can access their e-mails abit quicker? Come on, it's a joke.

Why do most TVs have USB ports on them nowadays? For people to plug in their externals/pen drives with downloaded movies. Nobody outright says it but it has become such a typical thing that manufacturers take it into consideration nowadays. What's the chances that someone rips their own DVDs onto an external HDD to play from their TV? Yeah right... I suppose on one hand perhaps that is a cause for concern.

But nevertheless, this is a huge joke and it's only going to see a whole lot of innocent people screwed, there will no doubt be /huge/ administration costs (how else is it gonna work? Monitoring everyones download activity, and then seeing if it violates copyright or not takes time. Time is money. And everyone's downloading something) which the tax payer will no doubt pay.

The entire thing sounds like a sick convoluted mess, and quite frankly I think it should be scrapped. Obviously the government has NO IDEA how the internet actually works. Any typical enterprise or business with a network could potentially be screwed by one person, which as irresponsible as it may be, could seriously cripple an entire company. How will the ISPs even know if what you're downloading is breaching copyright anyway? You could be streaming or downloading someone's music quite legally off soundclick, but if it looks like an MP3 or an AVI it automatically becomes suspicious? Bah. Fucking retards running the country, John key is a right dumbfuck who is really messing things up, time for him to go I think.
 

Synonym

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

I haven't looked at this bill at all (as it doesn't affect me) but I assume that they won't be setting up a large task-force to monitor everyone's downloads. More that likely the bill calls on the copyright holders to report illegal activity to the ISP who is then required to cut off internet services.

The US-based companies have been doing this for a long time, as it is how you receive a notice about illegal material at the moment. The bigger companies actually use their own trackers on the major torrenting sites (i.e. TPB) that log all of the IP's that are downloading their content. As the whole torrent system operates off of a leeching/seeding system it is fairly easy for them to monitor who is downloading their content.

This method isn't foolproof and there are several methods to avoid being caught out. The easiest option to settle your concerns is to just not download illegal content. If you aren't breaking the law then you can't get into trouble. Alternatively, you could invest a Saturday afternoon in learning how to not be caught.

Of course, I wouldn't be condoning the illegal acquisition of copyright content ;D
 

G-Train

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

I once got an email from metallicas lawyers saying they are suing me for downloading the hybrid metallica/Britney spears song from Napster. (It was Metallicas So What fused with Britneys cant remember what). Nothing ever happened.

Moral of the story: If your not downloading Gigs of stuff per day, they wont bother coming after you. Its the major leechers they are after.
 

nelots

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

nero0o said:
Why do most TVs have USB ports on them nowadays? For people to plug in their externals/pen drives with downloaded movies. Nobody outright says it but it has become such a typical thing that manufacturers take it into consideration nowadays. What's the chances that someone rips their own DVDs onto an external HDD to play from their TV? Yeah right... I suppose on one hand perhaps that is a cause for concern.
Manufacturers implemented USB ports to cater for legal media downloads through pay per view sources such as Hulu, netflix and etc.
Trying to pin the blame on manufacturers due to the end users illegal activities is like blaming your motor vehicle manufacturer for your traffic fines.

P.S - G fart, they've switched tactics to focus their actions on uploaders rather than leechers.
 

catcher2

New Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

Uploaders? Sif that'll be a problem in NZ... Unless you fork out alot more money for a fast upload plan you're normally capped to like. 0.125mbps anyway :lol:
 

nelots

Well-Known Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

nero0o said:
Uploaders? Sif that'll be a problem in NZ... Unless you fork out alot more money for a fast upload plan you're normally capped to like. 0.125mbps anyway :lol:
What are you talking about, most NZ providers have "Full Speed" ADSL2+ 50GB-100GB plans for <$100.
 

catcher2

New Member
Re: New Zealand's copyright bill: cake complains to parliame

nelots said:
nero0o said:
Uploaders? Sif that'll be a problem in NZ... Unless you fork out alot more money for a fast upload plan you're normally capped to like. 0.125mbps anyway :lol:
What are you talking about, most NZ providers have "Full Speed" ADSL2+ 50GB-100GB plans for <$100.
really? news to me, last I checked you normally had to go with "full speed" download with a severely capped upload speed. Where are you getting your plan prices btw, and are you including phone-line cost as well or just the internet connection & data? I highly doubt you could find me a proper full speed plan (thats download AND upload) with that much data for less than 100 dollars
 
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