Intelligence VS Religion
- Thread starter Flekzor
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It's not as simple as 'it's ok to believe what you want to believe in' Even if you think it makes your life better. Why?
Religion is the only concept in the entire world which allows people to talk, walk and enjoy life with an imaginary friend without mental assessment.
Religion is dangerous. One of the greatest examples of this is 9/11. What about other things? Take for example dumb Christians expending their moral energy opposing abortion rather than genocide. Why are they more concerned about human embryos rather than about one of the most lifesaving discoveries of all time (stem cell research). Why can Christians preach against condom use in Sub Saharan Africa while millions die of AIDS there each year?
Blind Faith in fairy tales. Virgin birth? No dinosaurs? Adam + Eve? Flood? Talking snakes? God? All rubbish. Absolute rubbish. You believe in rubbish. Many religious people prioritize huge amounts of time on rubbish. Zero evidence for any of your fairy tales and imaginary friends.
Evolution is fact. All life on earth has evolved from simpler life forms over billions of years this is a fact and no longer admits intelligent discussion. The world wouldn't be this way unless evolution was TRUE. It's highly accepted by all accredited scientists that evolution is FACT, even some bishops of the catholic church believe it is FACT. INTELLIGENT DESIGN is simply nothing more than political + religious advocacy masquerading science. It again, is rubbish. If ID were true your designer is actually retarded and he causes death himself through his 'perfect' design. Not believing in evolution is DENYING THE FACTS. DENYING EVIDENCE. You're an idiot if you do.
Religious Gods DO NOT EXIST: They don't. Prove me wrong? I'm not saying a god doesn't exist( I say this because it's impossible to prove, although it is highly improbably when we look at evolution). I'm saying the Christian God doesn't exist or Allah, or Thor, or Isis or Zeus. ETC ETC ETC.
The main reason religion is wrong is my point of it being dangerous. Christianity alone can be indirectly accounted for MANY DEATHS, even now. It's sad to watch people put forth intense point of views on religion and them being totally, utterly incorrect.
Trigger you are silly if you can't see the difference between faith in EVIDENCE and faith in imaginary friends, fairy tales, make believe planes called 'hell and heaven', miracles (through holy spirit) and a 6000 year old earth( LOL BUT IT CAN BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENT?!?!!) (lol)
@ Religious people - Your willful ignorance in inexcusable and it disgusts me. (ok I stole that part, but I back it 100%)
Religion is the only concept in the entire world which allows people to talk, walk and enjoy life with an imaginary friend without mental assessment.
Religion is dangerous. One of the greatest examples of this is 9/11. What about other things? Take for example dumb Christians expending their moral energy opposing abortion rather than genocide. Why are they more concerned about human embryos rather than about one of the most lifesaving discoveries of all time (stem cell research). Why can Christians preach against condom use in Sub Saharan Africa while millions die of AIDS there each year?
Blind Faith in fairy tales. Virgin birth? No dinosaurs? Adam + Eve? Flood? Talking snakes? God? All rubbish. Absolute rubbish. You believe in rubbish. Many religious people prioritize huge amounts of time on rubbish. Zero evidence for any of your fairy tales and imaginary friends.
Evolution is fact. All life on earth has evolved from simpler life forms over billions of years this is a fact and no longer admits intelligent discussion. The world wouldn't be this way unless evolution was TRUE. It's highly accepted by all accredited scientists that evolution is FACT, even some bishops of the catholic church believe it is FACT. INTELLIGENT DESIGN is simply nothing more than political + religious advocacy masquerading science. It again, is rubbish. If ID were true your designer is actually retarded and he causes death himself through his 'perfect' design. Not believing in evolution is DENYING THE FACTS. DENYING EVIDENCE. You're an idiot if you do.
Religious Gods DO NOT EXIST: They don't. Prove me wrong? I'm not saying a god doesn't exist( I say this because it's impossible to prove, although it is highly improbably when we look at evolution). I'm saying the Christian God doesn't exist or Allah, or Thor, or Isis or Zeus. ETC ETC ETC.
The main reason religion is wrong is my point of it being dangerous. Christianity alone can be indirectly accounted for MANY DEATHS, even now. It's sad to watch people put forth intense point of views on religion and them being totally, utterly incorrect.
Trigger you are silly if you can't see the difference between faith in EVIDENCE and faith in imaginary friends, fairy tales, make believe planes called 'hell and heaven', miracles (through holy spirit) and a 6000 year old earth( LOL BUT IT CAN BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENT?!?!!) (lol)
@ Religious people - Your willful ignorance in inexcusable and it disgusts me. (ok I stole that part, but I back it 100%)
The Admiral
Well-Known Member
I reckon a God exists. And that he/she/it (assuming that the God is aware) cares little for the fate of any of us.
Reasoning:
1. Big Bang etc. It's a terrible explanation. Isn't it that two particles smashed into each other to make the massive explosion that created everything? I admit, that there is the proof that it can happen. However, we have to ask, where did the two initial particles come from? Science has a reason, and it doesn't work. Thus, I believe that as the rules state that something must be created out of something, theoretically, only a God would be able to break those rules, and thus for the Big Bang Theory to hold, the existence of a God must also be true, to have created the initial particles.
2. We don't even know how big the universe it is (it's pretty massive compared to us though), and thus I truly think that the God must have something better to do with it than look after and watch over us.
Presuming the God is omniscient, the God would've foreseen that the whole universe would be created. There must have been something about it that the God liked, for the God to decide to have it created - unless it is one of those 'fated to happen' things, which is even more illogical than a God.
Also, @Blusky on "Evolution is fact". Technically, evolution goes against the physics principle (or is it a law? I forget senior physics already) that all things in the universe go from a state of greater complexity to lesser complexity. Evolution directly contradicts that, turning less complex organisms into more complex organisms. This is one of the reasons why many physicists do believe in a God or religion of some kind or another. My high school physics teacher was a catholic.
You say religion is dangerous? Hardly. Religion is the means to an end (war). If it isn't religion, it would be skin tone, intelligence, phsyical size, geographical location, customs, or philosophies (which religion kind of is). It is naive to think that the aggressiveness and greed of humans only comes about because of religion. The crusades were necessary for the hierarchy and economy of medieval Europe. Good way to kill of some of your own guys and bring back some riches. The muslim terrorists are just those with childish minds who are upset at the Western World's superior wealth and technological advances. Religion is just used as a cover for those things half the time.
@Fraggle: I agree. For those who get only benefit from religion - like so many of the elderly church-goers today, who use it as a place to socialise or an excuse to leave their house and see people, it gives them only good things.
@BR: Blowing people up gets you into heaven where you get the 20 or 21 virgin girls or something if you believe that. I think the idea is that once you're in heaven, you can actually get some, and thus become a man. (Where 'you' refers to the terrorists, not BR). BR is smoking hot, he could get some any time of day if he wanted.
Reasoning:
1. Big Bang etc. It's a terrible explanation. Isn't it that two particles smashed into each other to make the massive explosion that created everything? I admit, that there is the proof that it can happen. However, we have to ask, where did the two initial particles come from? Science has a reason, and it doesn't work. Thus, I believe that as the rules state that something must be created out of something, theoretically, only a God would be able to break those rules, and thus for the Big Bang Theory to hold, the existence of a God must also be true, to have created the initial particles.
2. We don't even know how big the universe it is (it's pretty massive compared to us though), and thus I truly think that the God must have something better to do with it than look after and watch over us.
Presuming the God is omniscient, the God would've foreseen that the whole universe would be created. There must have been something about it that the God liked, for the God to decide to have it created - unless it is one of those 'fated to happen' things, which is even more illogical than a God.
Also, @Blusky on "Evolution is fact". Technically, evolution goes against the physics principle (or is it a law? I forget senior physics already) that all things in the universe go from a state of greater complexity to lesser complexity. Evolution directly contradicts that, turning less complex organisms into more complex organisms. This is one of the reasons why many physicists do believe in a God or religion of some kind or another. My high school physics teacher was a catholic.
You say religion is dangerous? Hardly. Religion is the means to an end (war). If it isn't religion, it would be skin tone, intelligence, phsyical size, geographical location, customs, or philosophies (which religion kind of is). It is naive to think that the aggressiveness and greed of humans only comes about because of religion. The crusades were necessary for the hierarchy and economy of medieval Europe. Good way to kill of some of your own guys and bring back some riches. The muslim terrorists are just those with childish minds who are upset at the Western World's superior wealth and technological advances. Religion is just used as a cover for those things half the time.
@Fraggle: I agree. For those who get only benefit from religion - like so many of the elderly church-goers today, who use it as a place to socialise or an excuse to leave their house and see people, it gives them only good things.
@BR: Blowing people up gets you into heaven where you get the 20 or 21 virgin girls or something if you believe that. I think the idea is that once you're in heaven, you can actually get some, and thus become a man. (Where 'you' refers to the terrorists, not BR). BR is smoking hot, he could get some any time of day if he wanted.
Joke :D
Well-Known Member
Newton, father of Physics, was a Catholic.
And with what BR said, I don't want to beleive in an after life becasue if i go to hell, then i dont want to be in pain for ever. Or if i go to heaven, then i'd be stuck with billions of boring squares who thing that shooting games are "un-godly". Plus it would get incredibly boring after the first 10 years.
And with what BR said, I don't want to beleive in an after life becasue if i go to hell, then i dont want to be in pain for ever. Or if i go to heaven, then i'd be stuck with billions of boring squares who thing that shooting games are "un-godly". Plus it would get incredibly boring after the first 10 years.
Lol, I can think of a worse explanation. It's called God. But wait, that isnt really an explanation, what does God explain? Nothing.The Admiral said:
The 2nd law of thermodynamics. Creationists abuse this and skew it to appear as if it contradicts evolution. IN ACTUAL FACT evidence supports that evolution conforms to this law and evolution itself is an expression of it.The Admiral said:
Evolution is a fact. Beyond any reasonable doubt. Evolution is fact.
I've already argued why it is dangerous (and there are far, far more examples). IT IS dangerous. I guess it's up to your opinion. At the root of your points you made though, religion is still a major player in such things.The Admiral said:
I do however, enjoy your point of view ( if you believe in a god and not specifically the christian god).
:Edited to fix quotes:
Sunncaeks
Well-Known Member
Religion is not dangerous? Has anyone heard of Reverend Jim Jones? Anyways, this fellow, a Christian, founder of the Peoples Temple, some psuedo-religion, basically convinced 909 (276 of them children) people to kill themselves, aka, "Revolutionary suicide." The reason given by Jones to commit suicide was consistent with his previously stated conspiracy theories of intelligence organizations allegedly conspiring against the Temple, that men would "parachute in here on us," "shoot some of our innocent babies" and "they'll torture our children, they'll torture some of our people here, they'll torture our seniors." Parroting Jones' prior statements that hostile forces would convert captured children to fascism, one temple member states "the ones that they take captured, they're gonna just let them grow up and be dummies." - How ironic. Heh.
Not to mention Holy wars (IN THE HOLY WAARRRRSSSS. Sorry. Got carried away. Friggin' Megadeth.), ideological indoctrination, a reason to advocate racism (KKK, Christian Identity Movement) and homophobia, people thinking they can handle deadly snakes or walk on water and etc.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes Religion.”
Not to mention Holy wars (IN THE HOLY WAARRRRSSSS. Sorry. Got carried away. Friggin' Megadeth.), ideological indoctrination, a reason to advocate racism (KKK, Christian Identity Movement) and homophobia, people thinking they can handle deadly snakes or walk on water and etc.
The universe is however big you want it to be. :3The Admiral said:
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes Religion.”
The Admiral
Well-Known Member
Lol, I can think of a worse explanation. It's called God. But wait, that isnt really an explanation, what does God explain? Nothing.[/quote:3msniezc]-OZ-blusky said:
I believe the Big Bang happened, and in Evolution, but I think God STARTED the Big Bang, or at least, created the original particles involved. I cannot see any other explanation for how the initial particles came to be otherwise.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics. Creationists abuse this and skew it to appear as if it contradicts evolution. IN ACTUAL FACT evidence supports that evolution conforms to this law and evolution itself is an expression of it.-OZ-blusky said:
Evolution is a fact. Beyond any reasonable doubt. Evolution is fact. [/quote:3msniezc]
I agree in Evolution. I just realised how meaningless my previous thingy was as I believe in it. I haven't heard of evolution supporting it before. Sounds interesting though. Link perhaps?
I've already argued why it is dangerous (and there are far, far more examples). IT IS dangerous. I guess it's up to your opinion. At the root of your points you made though, religion is still a major player in such things.[/quote:3msniezc]-OZ-blusky said:
Yes. I think the 'religion starts wars' argument though underestimates the desire we have for war. The benefits of rounding up young males and uniting the country (in medieval times, not so much now with anti-war protests) were enough to start that desire. While I agree that there would be less wars if it weren't for religion, I disagree as to the number of fewer wars. I truly think that in many of the religious wars, with out religion, another reason would have been developed to 'justify' the war.
-nods--OZ-blusky said:
I believe in the science (Big Bang Theory, Evolution), but I truly cannot see how a God CANNOT exist. Religions based upon gods seem a little silly though, yet as Fraggle said, they offer a level of comfort of mind to many people, and the stories of druggies/alchies/gamblers/baddies etc reforming and 'seeing God', while stupid, show that religion does bring about a level of good in the world too. The missions to Africa/wherever too. I think that as time progresses though, religion is losing its significance in society (% population that is church going is continually decreasing), and that given another 100 years, provided there are no major catastrophes (global warming flooding/anything else that affects the entire world, not just a little earthquake), we(Western World) will be much closer being a religion-free populace.
A biblical God? A simulation from an alien supercomputer? Thor? Wotan? Which God?The Admiral said:
After answering that question. Who created the creator? Why? How? Why did he do the 'big bang'?
No human can speak coherently about how the universe came to be. Any intellectual will tell you that they don't know why the universe exists. What does evidence point to though? Nothing in the bible and definitely not a super natural creator (God).
Google it. It's quite hard to understand though and it's very technical. From what i've researched i've came to those two conclusions though.The Admiral said:
Doctors alleviate human suffering in poor poverty stricken countries don't they? Yes, they do. Do Christian missionaries? Yes, they do. BUT they come to the task encumbered by a dangerous and divisive mythology. Are Christian missionaries really that good and moral? They spread inaccurate information about contraception and sexually transmitted infection, they also withhold ACCURATE information. While of course they do accomplish many positive goals but are the accomplishments worth the ignorance and death they spread? No.-The Admiral said:
Furthermore, in El Salvador abortion is illegal under any circumstances. No exception (rape/incest). Why? Christianity. If a woman enters hospital with a perforated uterus(possible back alley abortion) she will be shackled to her bed and await a forensic team to examine her womb.
50% of all human conceptions end in spontaneous abortion. Does this mean that the christian god contradicts himself with the rate of abortions? If God exists, does this make him the greatest abortionist of all time?
i believe that everything is as it should be, kind of buddist without the RULES becos we (intelligent people) realise rules are meant to be broken tested bent shredded down and recreated. basically everything and everyone is GOD there is no such thing as good and evil becos what one man considers evil another considers holy which one of those men is more important that his view is more right that the other mans. the world is just a GREY ZONE life simply exists always has always will its infinite im sorry your weak minded brains cant seem to gather the concept.
and trigger ur a dead set moron of course it meant the world was pharking stupid ..... and miss informed read up ^ about the RULES and how they meant to be broken torn down started again ... OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER for ever and ever
and trigger where were u b4 u came to earth ???? i didn't ask to be born so its pretty pharking unLOGICAL AND UNFAIR that "GOD" brings me to earth to worship him and follow his rules becos isn't god sposed to be all knowing and all powerful and for that matter a fair god so me been born is more disproof of gods existence and for ur information trigger im a very avid reader and was brought up by my mother who was Christian so ive read the bible.... but obviously unlike u i questioned its COMPLETE BULLSHEEET when i was 9 years old i was smart enuf by that time to understand that RELIGION didn't make a lick of sence ur basically saying also that if ur Muslim that ull get ur 50 virgins just becos u believe it .... .....
well guess wat im gunna start believing that u trigger will burn in hell for the rest of ETERNITY in front of me for my pleasure does that mean that it will happen ???? no of course pharking not u pharking downy deadshit think before u pharking speak open ur eyes and realise this is it.
and fraggle control is an illusion AHHAHAHAHAHA u basically think we are robots id pharking hate to be in ur brain how pathitik and weak is that u basically have ridded ur self of all responsiblity becos U HAVE NO CONTROL pharking hella weak
and trigger ur a dead set moron of course it meant the world was pharking stupid ..... and miss informed read up ^ about the RULES and how they meant to be broken torn down started again ... OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER for ever and ever
and trigger where were u b4 u came to earth ???? i didn't ask to be born so its pretty pharking unLOGICAL AND UNFAIR that "GOD" brings me to earth to worship him and follow his rules becos isn't god sposed to be all knowing and all powerful and for that matter a fair god so me been born is more disproof of gods existence and for ur information trigger im a very avid reader and was brought up by my mother who was Christian so ive read the bible.... but obviously unlike u i questioned its COMPLETE BULLSHEEET when i was 9 years old i was smart enuf by that time to understand that RELIGION didn't make a lick of sence ur basically saying also that if ur Muslim that ull get ur 50 virgins just becos u believe it .... .....
well guess wat im gunna start believing that u trigger will burn in hell for the rest of ETERNITY in front of me for my pleasure does that mean that it will happen ???? no of course pharking not u pharking downy deadshit think before u pharking speak open ur eyes and realise this is it.
and fraggle control is an illusion AHHAHAHAHAHA u basically think we are robots id pharking hate to be in ur brain how pathitik and weak is that u basically have ridded ur self of all responsiblity becos U HAVE NO CONTROL pharking hella weak
Trigger Happy
Moderator
@blusky, Religion is just as dangerous as any other large group of people. America invades other countries and kills lots of people due to their belief that bringing in Democracy is the right thing to do, despite the fact that there were many grey area reasons for doing so (aka resources in such countries). Christianity isn't dangerous in any other way that these groups are, it is those that are extremists that are dangerous. As I said before, people take something out of context and roll with it, which is fundamentally flawed. A virgin birth yes we believe in,but no dinosaurs? I don't know many people that would argue that and if they do, well it isn't really anything to do with Christianity and hence it doesn't really matter in that context. You also seem to go on many things that you have either heard or taken in a very literal sense with again, no context. Anything someone says to you that isn't taken in context is obviously going to sound strange or stupid. The 6000 year old Earth scenario to just take one of your digs is something you have attempted to disprove with facts that aren't even proven as fact. There are other scientists that think the world is young and others that believe the Earth is old, either way to me it isn't really a deciding factor for me to hold belief due to a "his word against hers" kinda thing. You are believing in some rule that somehow loops a physics principle and state this as a fact that you are right. You are skewing someone's research to your argument and stating it as fact, which is again wrong. I can go on and quote something from the Bible and some other scientists that debate what you say, does that mean what you are saying is rubbish? Clearly you can see now how what I said before about it being a circular debate that produces no winners. I'm not here to convert anyone, I mean what are the chances of that on a game right 
What I am saying is that you are trying to deny faiths and all this crap simply because you do not like Christianity (you say a God may exist but not a Christian God, that makes total sense), which is close minded and well stupid when you think about how this debate will continue to go.
You are silly for only seeing one side, if you actually provide the evidence it would be nice to see what it is others debate, coming from an engineering background I like to read and see other points of view to make up my own mind, not what someone just tells me :)
@Your snide remark, I would like it if you could keep passion out of this debate and keep it on a nice level since anyone can throw a "you are ignorant for not looking at X fact" etc.
You again seem to contradict yourself by saying that no one knows how the universe is made, yet it couldn't be by a God. I mean seriously lol that is just going from making a nice unbiased statement to saying "I think this because X" in less than 10 seconds. Anyway, the rest of your arguments that go onto about abortion and what not, well I guess if that is your view then that is your view, I can't say I agree nor where you got those figures (50% lol come on) but I do not have answers for those questions that would satisfy you I would think.
@flekz, logic has nothing to do with faith. Sure they intertwine, but they don't really prove or disprove each other. I have also questioned the Bible in my life, but I have found my way back time and time again. I wasn't saying that because someone believes in something that it will happen, I was just stating that in your situation what was HIS belief and HIS reason for doing so, not that it was RIGHT in our sight. You need to stop swearing in a debate that is trying to stay on a formal level of facts/points rather than passion. Those debates just end in stubborn people going "LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M RIGHT AND THAT'S IT". As for your predicament of why he would put us on this Earth and it being unfair, well I guess that depends on your outlook. Most people I guess are happy to choose life over death and well going by your logic, if you didn't want to be here you could easily erase his decision to put you here in the first place. Other than that I also do not have an answer to that question as I cannot comprehend everything God does or will do :)
Cheers
What I am saying is that you are trying to deny faiths and all this crap simply because you do not like Christianity (you say a God may exist but not a Christian God, that makes total sense), which is close minded and well stupid when you think about how this debate will continue to go. You are silly for only seeing one side, if you actually provide the evidence it would be nice to see what it is others debate, coming from an engineering background I like to read and see other points of view to make up my own mind, not what someone just tells me :)
@Your snide remark, I would like it if you could keep passion out of this debate and keep it on a nice level since anyone can throw a "you are ignorant for not looking at X fact" etc.
You again seem to contradict yourself by saying that no one knows how the universe is made, yet it couldn't be by a God. I mean seriously lol that is just going from making a nice unbiased statement to saying "I think this because X" in less than 10 seconds. Anyway, the rest of your arguments that go onto about abortion and what not, well I guess if that is your view then that is your view, I can't say I agree nor where you got those figures (50% lol come on
) but I do not have answers for those questions that would satisfy you I would think.@flekz, logic has nothing to do with faith. Sure they intertwine, but they don't really prove or disprove each other. I have also questioned the Bible in my life, but I have found my way back time and time again. I wasn't saying that because someone believes in something that it will happen, I was just stating that in your situation what was HIS belief and HIS reason for doing so, not that it was RIGHT in our sight. You need to stop swearing in a debate that is trying to stay on a formal level of facts/points rather than passion. Those debates just end in stubborn people going "LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M RIGHT AND THAT'S IT". As for your predicament of why he would put us on this Earth and it being unfair, well I guess that depends on your outlook. Most people I guess are happy to choose life over death and well going by your logic, if you didn't want to be here you could easily erase his decision to put you here in the first place. Other than that I also do not have an answer to that question as I cannot comprehend everything God does or will do :)
Cheers
G
Guest
Guest
clearly i enjoy been here becos i dont follow rules but if i was put here clearly to live like a robot blindly following rules i wouldnt want to be here and that would be unfair and "god" would know this becos he "knows all" so that would make him an unfair god and therefore himself flawed and therefore not GOD
G
Guest
Guest
funny that u would say that ranga pride aye and if u wish to be interpreted differently u might wanna try expressing urself in a clear way becos thats really the only way to interpret wat u have written there u say u have no control and control is an illusion..... so if u believe control is a illusion then u dont think u have necontrol.... therefore u cant be held responsible for nething becos its not ur fault ur not in control. and karma hilarious karma karma only exists if u create it in ur mind .... for karma to exist there has to be good and bad and quite frankly good and bad dont its all grey. but i also went thru a period where i thort karma might exist ... mind u i was Tripping BALLS on acid but even if it did "exist" its would be based souly on wat YOU as a human considered good and bad aka ur conscience which wold also mean that YOU would have CONTROL over it
again my intelligence smashes ur theory's
again my intelligence smashes ur theory's
Trigger Happy
Moderator
I pose a few questions for Blusky in this post, just to see what the opposing views are.
So going back to the creation topic, you say that it is so unfathomable that a God could create the universe yes? Yet you are a man that believes solely in Science and has faith that this Science is right. Lets have a look at what science says in just a laymans look at things.
The start of the universe is these particles that are just magically there yet what was before that? How did those particles get there in the first place? Now lets look statistically at some things too, these magical particles created the entire universe through some crazy 'bang' where they all crashed at the EXACT right time/place that created heaps of stars and planets. Out of all of these planets, only one contains life (so far I guess you could argue). So how is it that such astronomical odds happened to create the universe in its entirety and yet only one planet was made EXACTLY right (not too close, not too far from the sun etc). Now on this planet that spawned life, we all started out as single cell organisms right? So those then evolved into more complex beings until we eventually became what we are today. Now with evolution, how does that work? Why do animals etc evolve in the first place? From what I have studied on it, it is mutations that are carried out over many many years that eventually get you differences in order to adapt or things like that to the environment. So generally speaking you have what is natural selection that takes place and it wipes out the older species that hasn't mutated since it didn't adapt. So if this is true, why are there still monkeys or whatever it is we evolved from? If we adapted this way, why are we the ONLY species on the entire planet that is as smart as we are? How come we are the only ones that made it this far? Why is there nothing else that is close to us and why in the entire human lifespan of when we became 'smart' has there been no other evolution of any kind? Sure we wouldn't see anything major, but we should still start seeing the minor changes in the next generation of our species. Now don't get me wrong, I know evolution happens in nature, we have seen it. But humans are not nature, we are above that in so many ways. Every creature you find in nature have traits and characteristics that make them completely suited to their environment and all have specific purposes. How is it that we hit these astronomical odds to evolve to become where we are? It seems almost like you have to have a higher amount of faith in science to believe it than it would take to believe that someone made us.
Both sides are pretty far fetched when you really think about what is behind it all. It is easy to say we were created or we were evolved and to believe either one, yet to say that one is more stupid than another is quite narrow minded I would say.
Cheers
So going back to the creation topic, you say that it is so unfathomable that a God could create the universe yes? Yet you are a man that believes solely in Science and has faith that this Science is right. Lets have a look at what science says in just a laymans look at things.
The start of the universe is these particles that are just magically there yet what was before that? How did those particles get there in the first place? Now lets look statistically at some things too, these magical particles created the entire universe through some crazy 'bang' where they all crashed at the EXACT right time/place that created heaps of stars and planets. Out of all of these planets, only one contains life (so far I guess you could argue). So how is it that such astronomical odds happened to create the universe in its entirety and yet only one planet was made EXACTLY right (not too close, not too far from the sun etc). Now on this planet that spawned life, we all started out as single cell organisms right? So those then evolved into more complex beings until we eventually became what we are today. Now with evolution, how does that work? Why do animals etc evolve in the first place? From what I have studied on it, it is mutations that are carried out over many many years that eventually get you differences in order to adapt or things like that to the environment. So generally speaking you have what is natural selection that takes place and it wipes out the older species that hasn't mutated since it didn't adapt. So if this is true, why are there still monkeys or whatever it is we evolved from? If we adapted this way, why are we the ONLY species on the entire planet that is as smart as we are? How come we are the only ones that made it this far? Why is there nothing else that is close to us and why in the entire human lifespan of when we became 'smart' has there been no other evolution of any kind? Sure we wouldn't see anything major, but we should still start seeing the minor changes in the next generation of our species. Now don't get me wrong, I know evolution happens in nature, we have seen it. But humans are not nature, we are above that in so many ways. Every creature you find in nature have traits and characteristics that make them completely suited to their environment and all have specific purposes. How is it that we hit these astronomical odds to evolve to become where we are? It seems almost like you have to have a higher amount of faith in science to believe it than it would take to believe that someone made us.
Both sides are pretty far fetched when you really think about what is behind it all. It is easy to say we were created or we were evolved and to believe either one, yet to say that one is more stupid than another is quite narrow minded I would say.
Cheers
HAHAHAHAHA. Why didn't I just stop reading here.-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
LOL ok Trigger.....the world is actually 6000 years old and virgin birth is possible....ok. We definitely don't have the technology to date the Earth...-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
The 2nd law of thermodynamics? My statement was wrong? Look it up. I can just as easily turn your statement against yourself.-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
Hahahaha, quote something from the bible to disprove anything i've said. Even though I have no idea how much weight a quote from a fairy tale would hold.-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
It does make sense.-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
You're WILLFUL ignorance for believing in a virgin birth, god, talking snakes and the like are laughable. I would not protest to you making 'snide' comments about evolution, facts, statistics and rational thought. Well I, and others might call you an idiot, but you bring it on yourself.-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
It's fact. Again, look it up and enjoy believing in the greatest abortionist of all time for a god!-OZ-Trigger Happy said:
edit: ill reply to your most recent post when I have time (tonight, probably - merry xmas)
Trigger Happy
Moderator
If you are stating facts, provide them. Why would I need to go chase down what could be an imaginary statement made by you
I have to ask before I go on any further, do you actually study at all? Have you ever studied science to any sort of actual standard? If not then I need not go any further myself, you clearly lack any coherent manner of how to approach a scientific fact of any kind. I can see now that instead of actually arguing your point you have reduced to LOL ZOMG sif believe that. So I guess there isn't any real need to debate since you will never back up what you say with any real facts.
You have technology to date the Earth, yes, but to what is it based on? How does it measure how old something is? How can they go back 4.75 billion years in time and say that is how it was then and that whatever they date something in the past hundred years is the same as how to date something years ago? I for one don't know, I have never looked into it because it isn't a big deal for me. But see what I did there? I didn't just assume it was right because I have heard a little on the subject, I am open to it when I actually hear what goes in behind it. I am not saying that the world is 6000 years old, again there is no point trying to tell you just how wrong you are at trying to take something like that literally from the bible, as you have no concept of context or any real desire to hear another point of view.
So while it was fun debating with you in the start, I guess there isn't really much more to say, you can LOL ZOMG FAIRIES if you like, it is your view and you are free to it :)
I won't reduce an argument to snide remarks even though I could, what is the point? Is it just to annoy the other person to take them away from the fact you have no sources to back up what you claim? As I said, I am keeping this factual with no passion involved and if you don't want to do so, well then, it's been fun, but I guess it's game over.
Cheers
I have to ask before I go on any further, do you actually study at all? Have you ever studied science to any sort of actual standard? If not then I need not go any further myself, you clearly lack any coherent manner of how to approach a scientific fact of any kind. I can see now that instead of actually arguing your point you have reduced to LOL ZOMG sif believe that. So I guess there isn't any real need to debate since you will never back up what you say with any real facts.
You have technology to date the Earth, yes, but to what is it based on? How does it measure how old something is? How can they go back 4.75 billion years in time and say that is how it was then and that whatever they date something in the past hundred years is the same as how to date something years ago? I for one don't know, I have never looked into it because it isn't a big deal for me. But see what I did there? I didn't just assume it was right because I have heard a little on the subject, I am open to it when I actually hear what goes in behind it. I am not saying that the world is 6000 years old, again there is no point trying to tell you just how wrong you are at trying to take something like that literally from the bible, as you have no concept of context or any real desire to hear another point of view.
So while it was fun debating with you in the start, I guess there isn't really much more to say, you can LOL ZOMG FAIRIES if you like, it is your view and you are free to it :)
I won't reduce an argument to snide remarks even though I could, what is the point? Is it just to annoy the other person to take them away from the fact you have no sources to back up what you claim? As I said, I am keeping this factual with no passion involved and if you don't want to do so, well then, it's been fun, but I guess it's game over.
Cheers
Death_Reincarnated
Well-Known Member
Problem are humans and their actions. The only way you will know if there is anything beyond death is if you die and see it for yourself. All will be explained thus why you need to have faith so you may live in the afterlife. If you knew that there was an afterlife then your actions would be void and would not serve the purpose they were meant for.
G
Guest
Guest
so basically ur saying that all our actions are already void becos there is an afterlife ..... great work death very insightfull u almost got it ... yes all our actions are already void they mean nothing .... but not becos there is an afterlife becos this is it once ur dead your personal universe dies everything uve done no longer matters becos ull never know becos ur dead
i think therefore i am. therefore if ur not thinking ur not existing so if u don't have a brain which u only have whilst ur alive here in the universe ur not thinking therefore not existing.
i think therefore i am. therefore if ur not thinking ur not existing so if u don't have a brain which u only have whilst ur alive here in the universe ur not thinking therefore not existing.
Death_Reincarnated
Well-Known Member
Do you know IF there is an afterlife...no...so read my post carefully before you assume the wrong thing. I never said there is or there isnt..no-one knows untill they die BUT if they knew then it would be a differnt ball game all together...in terms of humans actions and how they go about it.immortaltechnique said:
Humans are imortal AND imperfect therefore why they make miskates and why bad/evil things happen.
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